Editor’s Notes: Bill O’Reilly hosts Senator Lindsey Graham for a deep dive into the “imminent” threat of a nuclear-armed Iran and the strategic necessity of military intervention to prevent regional escalation. Senator Graham explains how “defanging” the Iranian regime serves as a precursor to a historic peace deal between Saudi Arabia and Israel, which he argues would effectively end centuries of Arab-Israeli conflict. The interview also covers the broader geopolitical landscape, including critiques of the isolationist wing of the Republican Party and the long-term implications of the wars in Ukraine and Gaza. Finally, the two discuss domestic issues such as the reform of Section 230 and the perceived deterioration of intellectual curiosity in modern American political discourse. (Mar 20, 2026)
TRANSCRIPT:
Introduction
BILL O’REILLY: Bill O’Reilly here. Welcome to We’ll Do It Live. Of course we’re not doing it live, we’re taping it. But I say we’re doing it live because that is the name of the long form program that we’re giving you tonight. Okay. You can sue me. I know I lose. I would lose.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM: I love this show already.
BILL O’REILLY: Unbelievable guest because of Iran. And that is Senator Lindsey Graham. He’s been in Congress on the Hill for more than 30 years. A lot of people don’t know this, but the Senator was JAG’d for the Air Force and he knows more about Iran than anyone. And I’m saying that as someone who knows a lot about it myself.
So this is not going to be a boring conversation between two pinheads. We’re going to learn something here. And it’s very important that the world know what’s really going on. So Senator, thanks for taking the time.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM: Thanks a bunch. I hear you. I’m your first politician.
BILL O’REILLY: Yeah, we do back and forth with showbiz people and crash and burn.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM: I’m sorry.
The Word “Imminent” and the Iran Threat
BILL O’REILLY: Yeah, but this is extremely important. So the word “imminent” is the problem here. 100% it’s the problem. Because Americans, they want to support anti-terror measures. I think most clear thinking people understand Iran is a terror nation. If it’s not around, it’s better for the world. I think they understand that. What they don’t understand is: did we have to do this now?
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM: So there’s two things I’ve learned. I’m 70. Vietnam has cast a great shadow over American foreign policy for a long time. Nobody wants to get into a Vietnam. Iraq and Afghanistan have cast a long shadow over Mideast policy. And I can understand that. So everything we do, are we going down that road again?
BILL O’REILLY: Right.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM: And the answer is no. But we’re not going to sit on the sidelines and watch Iran get a nuclear weapon.
“Imminent.” Let me tell you what the facts are and you tell me if it was imminent. So Jared Kushner and Witkoff are charged by the President to go to the Iranians and sit down and see if you can do a deal over their nuclear program. Now they’ve said for generations, “All we want is peaceful nuclear power. Countries enrich that have nuclear power. Why should we be different? Why should we be second class citizens? Why shouldn’t we be allowed to enrich like you do for peaceful nuclear power?”
Well, the argument I would give back is that for about 20 years you’ve been cheating. You have not tried to develop a peaceful nuclear power program. Your enrichment program is well beyond what you need for peaceful purposes.
Iran’s Enrichment Program: The Evidence
BILL O’REILLY: How do we know the preceding?
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM: Because they said so. That comes in a minute. It’s been pretty clear — the IAEA, everybody has caught them having enrichment capability beyond what you need for commercial purposes. The most you need for commercial purposes is 20% uranium. There is no commercial need for 60%. What does it take to make a weapon? 90. So 20 is the outside of commercial. 60 is threshold weapons. 90 is weapons.
Now, the IAEA — not me — has accused them.
BILL O’REILLY: This is the UN.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM: Yeah, the UN dudes. Not Lindsey Graham. Have found them cheating on three different occasions where they had secret enrichment facilities designed to go well beyond 20. So they’ve been called out three times.
And here’s the question. Do you believe that if they had a nuclear weapon, they would use it? What do you say?
BILL O’REILLY: They’d do it, but they’d hand it off to somebody.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM: Okay. They would use it through a proxy.
BILL O’REILLY: Yep.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM: Why?
BILL O’REILLY: Because they don’t want to be obliterated, I would say.
The Hitler Analogy
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM: Do you believe Hitler wanted to kill all the Jews?
BILL O’REILLY: Yes.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM: Well, most people didn’t until it was too late. So the first thing you’ve got to do in my business — who are you dealing with? I’m sitting across from you. I know what I’m dealing with. Do you believe the guy on the other side actually wants peaceful nuclear power, or does he actually want a bomb?
BILL O’REILLY: Well, I’m on record as saying the President did the right thing by launching this military action, and he did the right thing last June by taking out their big nuke facility. However, there is a legitimate debate going around, and you know it. Because of this guy who resigned.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM: Yeah, Joe Kent. We’ll be glad about that.
BILL O’REILLY: Who said it’s not imminent.
Trump’s Offer to Iran and Their Response
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM: Well, let’s look at the facts. So let’s get back to where we were. Trump says, “Go talk to the Iranians,” and here’s what he offered them: “You can have a small enrichment program to save face.
BILL O’REILLY: Right.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM: And, “We will guarantee you spent fuel supply forever, for free.”
BILL O’REILLY: And they turned it all down.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM: Why? Well, because they don’t want a nuclear power program. They want the capability to make a weapon because they’re religious Nazis. And if you don’t believe that, you’re wrong.
Those in the 1930s who thought Hitler was just trying to get more German territory, trying to right the wrongs of Versailles — they were wrong. I don’t know why people want to kill all the Jews, but Hitler did. I don’t know why he believed the Aryan race had to be the master race, but he did. I don’t know why these nut jobs in Iran want to purify Islam, but they do. I don’t know why they want to kill all the Jews, but they say they do. And I think they would kill us. So that’s where I’m at.
Why the Threat Was Truly Imminent
BILL O’REILLY: “Imminent.” So you don’t know that they would have had a nuclear weapon in three months. You say whenever they got it, they would use it.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM: I’ll say two weeks. Now, what makes it imminent? So let me tell you why Joe Kent doesn’t know what he’s talking about.
During the conversation about, “Will you take this once-in-a-lifetime deal to have all the peaceful nuclear power you want on very generous terms?” — they said no. And during the course of the conversation, they made a fatal mistake. They told Kushner and Witkoff, “Oh, by the way, we have 460 kilograms of uranium enriched to 60%.” Now, why would they say that? There is no commercial purpose for 60%.
BILL O’REILLY: So why would they say it?
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM: I’ll tell you in a minute. The difference between 60 and 90 is two weeks, not three months. You can blend 60 to 90 literally in two weeks. I think they were trying to blackmail and intimidate Trump. They thought he was Obama and Biden. “We’re going to give you a big secret here. We’re this close to a nuclear weapon. What are you going to do about it?”
BILL O’REILLY: Why would they do that when he took out their big nuke facility?
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM: I can’t answer that question. But I’ll tell you what they did. I think they told us, “We’re this close to a nuclear weapon. If you don’t negotiate on our terms, we’re going to break out.” And they said something even more disturbing: “We’re not going to give you diplomatically what you can’t take militarily.”
So they went back to Trump, and I’ll tell you what Obama and Biden would have done — “Please don’t go there.”
The Geneva Meeting and Operation Midnight Hammer
BILL O’REILLY: No, we know. We’ll get to them. Okay, but this is in the last Geneva meeting with Witkoff and Kushner. This is the Iranians, and they’re on record, so there’s no two sides to the story, right? Saying, “Look, we’re not going to give up what you can’t take.” Right? We’re not going to give it up. They had to know, though — they being the mullahs in charge — that President Trump is not a weak man.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM: Well, they clearly didn’t.
BILL O’REILLY: I don’t know about that.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM: Well, I can tell you this. When they told us, “We’re at 60, we can go to 90,” what Trump did was Midnight Hammer. He blew the crap out of their enrichment capabilities so they couldn’t go to 90. That’s imminent.
So to Joe Kent and anybody else watching — when the Iranians told us out of their own mouth they had enough 60% uranium to make 10 bombs if—
BILL O’REILLY: —they could get there within two months.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM: Within two weeks. Not two months. 460 kilograms at 90% is 10 nuclear bombs.
BILL O’REILLY: So that’s imminent.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM: To me, it’s imminent.
Joe Kent’s Resignation and the Counterterrorism Debate
BILL O’REILLY: Well, the head of counterterrorism says it wasn’t imminent. He’s got the same info you have.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM: No, he doesn’t. He’s lying.
BILL O’REILLY: Why? Why would he lie?
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM: Well, why did he say the Jews drug us into it?
BILL O’REILLY: Because he doesn’t like Israel having influence.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM: Yeah. Well, he’s saying, “If the Jews weren’t around, we’d all be safe.” His letter of resignation was full of misinformation and anti-Semitism.
BILL O’REILLY: So you think it’s him not liking the state of Israel, or—
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM: I can’t explain why people say things like that. You need to talk to him. But when it comes to the imminent part, he was dead wrong. The truth of the matter is they did have 460 kilograms at 60%. They could go to 90 in literally two weeks — enough material to make 10 bombs. If that’s not imminent, what would be?
And number one, anybody out there — prove I’m wrong. Prove that what I just said is not true.
BILL O’REILLY: Well, you have information that the folks don’t have. But this guy Kent, he was sidelined even before.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM: Yes, because he opposed it.
BILL O’REILLY: And it looks like — yeah, and it looks like personal sour grapes.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM: He was one of the three, maybe four people opposed to going in.
BILL O’REILLY: J.D. Vance.
J.D. Vance and the Isolationist Wing of the GOP
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM: I don’t know what J.D. did. I like J.D., but I can say this — he’s been consistent about Iran. Shouldn’t have a nuclear weapon. You know, everybody—
BILL O’REILLY: But he doesn’t want — come on, you know that. He was a dissenting voice. Well, you know that.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM: I don’t know it. I wasn’t there. But I can tell you this — his actions about the regime were different than mine. He didn’t see it at the same threat level I do, but I think he’s been loyal to the President.
BILL O’REILLY: No doubt.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM: And he’s a good man. But I will say this — the threat that Iran possesses is just not a nuclear capability. They’ve been funding terrorism at an industrial scale for 40 years.
BILL O’REILLY: I wrote a book on it.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM: Okay, you wrote a book. You need to buy it. There are 221 Marines killed in Beirut by Hezbollah. There is no Hezbollah without Iran. Hamas couldn’t exist one day. There’s no October 7th without Iran. The Houthis — all funded by Iran.
The third thing they do is, they’re trying to get a nuclear weapon. They fund terrorism, and they’ve just been basically the worst people on the planet trying to disrupt the region for religious purposes.
The Isolationist Wing and Rand Paul
BILL O’REILLY: Isn’t it a good thing that you have a dissenter like the Vice President in an administration?
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM: Sure. I mean, I don’t—
BILL O’REILLY: But there is a wing in the Republican Party, right, that doesn’t want any of this. They don’t want any intervention overseas.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM: Well, that wing is called Chamberlain. The 1930s are being repeated. It’s like World War II didn’t exist.
BILL O’REILLY: But why is that wing in the Republican Party? Why do they have currency? Why does Rand—
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM: They’ve always been there. They’ve always been there. A part of the fabric of—
BILL O’REILLY: You talk to Rand Paul?
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM: Not lately, but at least he’s consistent. Would you say he’s honest?
BILL O’REILLY: Who? Rand Paul? I’d say he believes what he says.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM: He believes every word of what he says. And I think he’s just wrong. He’s not a bad person.
BILL O’REILLY: Okay. But he’s not lying.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM: Oh, God, no. He is the most truthful — there are two people on Capitol Hill that are the most truthful people I know: Bernie Sanders and Rand Paul.
BILL O’REILLY: They believe what they say.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM: They believe it. Well, I believe what I say.
The Vance Factor and Unintended Consequences
BILL O’REILLY: What about Vance, though? Because this is important. So you got President Trump, who’s on your wavelength, who sees what you have just described to us. And I can’t challenge that. And you did explain the imminent thing pretty well. I have to give you some credit there, sir.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM: These are the facts.
BILL O’REILLY: All right, so now I know why two weeks is imminent.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM: Yes.
BILL O’REILLY: Now you stand behind it 100%, 1,000%. Okay. There’s no such thing as 1,000. But we get the point. But Vance comes in and he urges caution to President Trump because of the unintended consequences before this information.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM: Before, yeah. Now, see, Trump—
BILL O’REILLY: So you think. You think Vance changed—
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM: I think this changed everything. Now, Trump had already hit him before. It’s not like—
BILL O’REILLY: And Vance didn’t say anything, but that was one shot.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM: But what I want you to get out of this interview — if anything — put yourself in the seat of the president. You say one thing when you campaign, then you get to be president and they hand you a file. What do you do? Can you imagine if President Trump did not act? They would have broken out. And if they had a nuclear—
BILL O’REILLY: —you’re 1,000%, they would have broken out.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM: Yeah.
BILL O’REILLY: Okay.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM: Because they told us they would.
The Cost of War and South Carolina’s Regular Folks
BILL O’REILLY: Okay, but there are unintended consequences of this action in law.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM: Yes, there are.
BILL O’REILLY: Okay, so. So South Carolina is not a wealthy state. It’s regular folks.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM: Right.
BILL O’REILLY: All right. Okay. They’re paying a buck more a gallon.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM: The cost of the war is real.
BILL O’REILLY: Right. Do they understand?
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM: You know what I think? I think I’m doing a pretty good job of telling them he had no choice. See, Israel has no choice. When somebody says, “I’d like to kill all the Jews,” that brings up bad memories.
BILL O’REILLY: And October 7th — 1,200 — it was a test run.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM: Right?
BILL O’REILLY: “Here’s what we’re going to do.”
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM: 1,200 Jews slaughtered in the most vicious way. I got to buy these books. Buy the guy’s book.
BILL O’REILLY: I just gave it to you free.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM: Okay, good.
BILL O’REILLY: Put it on eBay.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM: I will. I’m going to pay ethics.
A Personal Story: Understanding Economic Pain
BILL O’REILLY: All right, we’re in South Carolina—
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM: —the folks I’m talking to, the people, they’re war weary. Gas prices are going up. If you’re making, say, $15 an hour — you and your wife, a couple making 15, 20 bucks an hour, and you got three kids — every dollar that goes into the gas tank is a dollar away from other things.
I’m the first person in my family to ever go to college. Neither one of my parents finished high school. When I was 21, my mom died. When I was 22, my dad died. We owned a liquor store, a bar and a pool room, and we grew up in the back. We were a happy family, but by no means wealthy. I know what it’s like to be needing all the money you can, because the bills keep coming in no matter what.
So when my mom died, she was 17 years younger than my dad. I thought, well, that shouldn’t happen. But it did. Okay. My dad’s 60-something and I’ve got a 13-year-old sister. 15 months later he’s dead and I got a 13-year-old sister. My life turned upside down. So how do you pay the bills? How’s she going to college? What are you going to do?
I understand that. I understand that the world can change and it can be pulled out from under you like a rug. Why am I asking people to be patient and to pay a price now so they don’t have to pay later? Because I believe it. It’s not that I’m indifferent to what 20 cents a gallon means.
BILL O’REILLY: Do you think you’re going to be successful? You do? Okay. But part B of the question is—
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM: —if we’re not, blame me, because I deserve blame. If we’re not successful, you can blame me, because nobody has advocated to take on this Iranian regime more forcefully than me.
Corporate Media vs. Trump
BILL O’REILLY: Okay, you have a corporate media which is lined up against Trump, okay. And it’s personal.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM: They’re more afraid of him being successful than the Ayatollah.
BILL O’REILLY: That’s right.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM: I believe that.
BILL O’REILLY: So you, Lindsey Graham, say, “Look, this is the reality of the situation. All Americans have to accept a little economic pain for the security that a destroyed Iran will bring.” But then they turn on — 80% of the media is telling them no, this is BS, it never should have happened. And there’s no hard end game, this and this. Every night they hear the same thing.
The Bigger Picture: Saudi Arabia, Israel, and the Abraham Accords
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM: But 80% of Republicans are sticking with Trump, I think, because they just trust him. Everything you’re saying is true. Every day gas prices go up, people are war weary. They just remember the Middle East is just a bad place to be. I’ve got my work cut out for me and I am not giving an inch. I’m trying to stick with President Trump.
And here’s what I believe. In about three or four weeks, no longer, we will have degraded the regime’s capability to build missiles, to hit us, to be the largest state sponsor of terrorism, and to go back in the nuclear weapons business for a very, very long time.
What is the outcome I’m looking for? And this will surprise everybody — it’s not who takes over Iran next. I’m trying to defang Iran so there’s no more October 7th, to go back and finish what I tried to start with Biden. Saudi Arabia recognizing Israel — the Abraham Accords plus Saudi Arabia recognizing Israel — is well beyond the Abraham Accords.
The center of Islam is Saudi Arabia, the holy mosque in Mecca, Medina. It is the center of Islam. If the center of Islam would recognize the one and only Jewish state, Israel, it would effectively end the Arab-Israeli conflict that’s been raging for a thousand-plus years.
During Biden’s administration, I went to Saudi and Israel eight times with Tony Blinken, Brett McGurk, Jake Sullivan to try to build on the Abraham Accords, to get Saudi to come into the Abraham Accords and recognize Israel. October 7th was designed by Iran to stop that. Stop it.
BILL O’REILLY: Very good.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM: Their worst nightmare is for the Arabs and the Jews to make peace, leaving them behind right now.
BILL O’REILLY: Netanyahu, though, he’s not an easy guy to deal with.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM: Tell me about it. So let’s play it out. So I’ll tell you what I’m up to. I’m trying to get Iran weakened so we can get back to the peace table and finish the biggest deal on the planet — Saudi, Israel.
Now, what does Saudi want, Bill, to recognize Israel? I’ve been there more times than I can count now. Three things. A defense agreement with the United States like we have with Japan and Australia. How many of you out there are ready to go to war for Saudi Arabia? They have a defense—
BILL O’REILLY: No one.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM: Well, it’s a tough sale. Now, I’m going to try to sell you why it’s in your interest. If Trump says he’s for it, most Republicans would be for the treaty.
And Saudi Arabia’s change is real. Now, how do you get Democrats to vote for a defense agreement to go to war with Saudi Arabia that benefits MBS, Trump, and Bibi? There’s only one way you do that.
The second thing that MBS wants — Saudi — is a pathway to a Palestinian state, irreversible, with the capital in East Jerusalem. I don’t know if that’s possible after October 7th, but he wants a dignified life and solution to the Palestinian problem.
BILL O’REILLY: Well, the investment in Gaza would be a start to that.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM: I’m hopeful. But why does MBS insist on that? The Arab world is on fire. They may not watch your show, but Al Jazeera is mourning.
BILL O’REILLY: No, they do. They know.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM: They know. Right. So for him to recognize Israel after October 7th, he literally could get killed.
BILL O’REILLY: He’s got to get something he can show his people. The Wahhabists—
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM: Those are the problems. But just the average person — some very highly intelligent young woman is not really sold on Israel after this war. I’ve been to Saudi enough to know that the elite there have turned. So what does he have to do? He’s got to prove to the Arab world that for recognizing Israel, I got something.
BILL O’REILLY: Everybody — “I got something,” right?
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM: The Palestinians, everybody’s been pleading for the Palestinian cause on the left. Well, you may have a chance to get it. So what will I say? I will go to Bibi and say, “Listen, if we pull this off — you destroy Iran with our help, you wipe Hamas off the face of the earth, Hezbollah has no money because Iran has changed—”
BILL O’REILLY: Right.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM: “—they’re weakened. I would ask you to entertain helping MBS on the Palestinian solution. Push your own base, find a solution so we can close this deal.”
That’d be hard for him, but it’s going to be hard for MBS. Now, what role do I play? I want to support this treaty. I’m going to try to get Republicans to support it, but I’ll go to Democrats and say, “Listen, I tried to help Biden. I’m asking no more of you than I ask of myself. I was willing to do this big deal on Biden’s watch, and October 7th stopped it.”
You don’t know this, but I’m about to tell you. At the end of October of 2023, we were going to announce a framework. That’s how close we were. October 7th came in the nick of time.
There’ll come a time where Iran is defanged — not completely solved.
BILL O’REILLY: Well, you say it’s going to be in about six weeks.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM: Three to four weeks.
BILL O’REILLY: Three to four weeks.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM: Okay. And what am I looking for? When Saudi Arabia feels that Iran is weakened, that they can go back to the negotiating table. That’s what this war is about for me.
Europe’s Reluctance and Political Cowardice
BILL O’REILLY: Let’s pivot to Europe.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM: Let’s go to Europe.
BILL O’REILLY: So you would think after all of the terror incidents that France has had—
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM: —and if you’re watching this show, you’ve learned more than 99% of the people about what we’re up to.
BILL O’REILLY: Right. With the exception of Italy, all of the other big NATO countries are basically saying, “Look, you do it.” It’s not that they’re opposed to downgrading Iran. They’re not. They want us to do everything.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM: Well, it’s a little deeper than that. It’s not just, “Be our guest. We hope you’re successful. Call us, let us know how—”
BILL O’REILLY: “It’s not our war.” When you clean it up — well, Starmer said today, right, “Once you get it under control, then we’ll put some ships in.”
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM: Yeah. Well—
BILL O’REILLY: Well, thanks.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM: So it’s a little — you’re dead right. They don’t want their fingerprints on it because a lot of them have very diverse populations that are not into anything called Israel.
BILL O’REILLY: So they’re cowards.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM: I think they’re just politicians running scared.
BILL O’REILLY: That’s cowards.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM: I would think so. So let me just say this. If you’re helping Trump or Bibi in Europe, you’re probably not going to—
BILL O’REILLY: But the folks don’t know that. I mean, they’re not doing that well—
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM: —but I’m saying that animosity on the streets of Europe toward Israel and the United States is pretty high right now. So what happened that really has made things worse? Trump is asking for some help to keep the straits flowing.
BILL O’REILLY: Right.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM: We get 1% of our oil from the Strait of Hormuz. Europe gets most of it. Right now, every European politician has not only said no, they’ve publicly said no. France said today, “We’ll never get involved in this Iranian war. This was not our war.” An Ayatollah with a nuclear weapon that would terrorize the region and the world and use it is your problem. Hitler became everybody’s problem.
BILL O’REILLY: So why did Macron say it?
Europe’s Unreliability and the Iran-Ukraine-China Connection
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM: Because it’s popular and I don’t know other than that, that he has a. He’s mad that we didn’t tell him. If we told the Europeans we’re going to attack Iran, it leaked out in five seconds. They can be upset, I get that. But what they can’t do is publicly undercut the President because Iran looks at this rift and they may try to hang on.
And here’s what’s odd. Helping keep the straits open helps Europe more than it helps us. And here’s how it’s going to play out. If they keep screwing around with Trump, watch out for Ukraine because he doesn’t think that’s our war. I think it’s important that we stop Putin.
BILL O’REILLY: Well, Putin’s a big winner in all of this, you know that. But I don’t want to get to him until a minute.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM: Okay? Europe.
BILL O’REILLY: Yeah.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM: Europe’s an unreliable ally.
BILL O’REILLY: So I’m going to morph you into Donald Trump right now. Watch this. It’s not Senator Graham, it’s President Trump.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM: I’ll have more hair.
BILL O’REILLY: Here is the question. Was it smart to say you were going to invade Greenland, that NATO and the EU are a bunch of wusses? Was it smart to go over there and poke the European bear because they don’t like you?
Trump’s Unpredictability as a Strategic Asset
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM: Now I might bend a bridge too far. I’m a pretty forward leaning guy, but Greenland. But Trump is Trump. And let me tell you the benefit of being Trump — people are afraid of him. Was anybody afraid of Obama and Biden? No. I was afraid of Obama for a different reason. If you’re a foreign power, you know, Trump could send a rowboat and everybody would say, “What can we do to help you?” Biden could send an aircraft carrier and everybody would yawn. Part of being President is getting in people’s heads. Trump’s in everybody’s head, including mine.
BILL O’REILLY: I know, but it worked against him here.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM: Sometimes it does, but the greater good is better. Venezuela — we’re better off. Maduro.
BILL O’REILLY: 100%.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM: Okay.
BILL O’REILLY: Initial dancing for the baseball game.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM: I mean, we’ll make some news. I would love Venezuela to be a state.
BILL O’REILLY: No, you don’t want Venezuela.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM: Well, that’s your opinion. I would. So, anyway, Trump said it. Fine with me. The point is, Venezuela used to be the center of narco terrorism. It’s no longer. Maduro’s in jail, the Venezuelan people are free and they’re playing baseball.
BILL O’REILLY: It worked.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM: But he got like five seconds of credit. If a Democrat had done that, they’d stop the entire world and celebrate it. If a Democrat acted the way Trump did, they would tell the story about the 460kg morning, noon and night. You can’t find this story in the mainstream media because they don’t want you to know it. So Venezuela was a ballsy thing to do, and it worked.
Cuba, Iran, and the Bigger Picture
BILL O’REILLY: Right?
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM: If you’ve got family in Cuba, they’re going to be liberated soon. That’s a great thing. And we’re doing it without any troops on the ground. We had a snatch operation, but no occupation, no invasion. Donald Trump, in his own way, is one of the most brilliant people I’ve ever met. In his own way, he can do things nobody else will do. And he’s gotten these countries in a spot. Venezuela is liberated. Cuba’s about to be liberated without an invasion. Now Iran — can we collapse this regime enough to lead to a Saudi-Israel deal? If we can, it’d be the biggest change in 2000 years.
BILL O’REILLY: But you think we can?
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM: Yes, I’m highly confident we can, but we’ve got to stick with it.
Graham’s Warning to European Allies
Back to Europe. I’m a NATO guy. John McCain was one of my dearest friends. I believe in alliances, but I was stunned at how brazen they were — sticking it to Trump on the Hormuz, not thinking it through on Ukraine. My phone lit up all day today from European leaders because of my tweet yesterday. I said, “I’ve been pretty strong for alliances, but maybe I miscalculated. Maybe we don’t have reliable friends. If you’re not willing to help now to help yourself, should we be spending all this money?”
And coming from me is different than coming from Trump. So as Trump, I would tell our European allies: “You’re more unreliable than I thought. I’m having to do things without you because you won’t help me. And you know what? I’m getting comfortable doing it.”
BILL O’REILLY: So you leave them hanging on Ukraine, but that helps Putin — one of the big villains in the world.
Ending the Ukraine War Honorably
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM: I think so. But the truth of the matter is the Ukraine war needs to end honorably and justly. We don’t need to reward Putin’s invasion, but we’ve got to realize we’re not going to get every Russian out. I don’t like Putin. You don’t like Putin. I think he’s killed a lot of people to stay in power. But it doesn’t matter what I think about Putin. How do you end this war? How do you prevent a third invasion?
I believe with all my heart and soul that if we had real security guarantees from the West to Ukraine, he wouldn’t invade it. That’s the Budapest memorandum.
BILL O’REILLY: No, he tested.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM: He tested.
BILL O’REILLY: He absolutely tested.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM: And we had no infrastructure to require people to come to aid.
BILL O’REILLY: Absolutely tested.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM: And he’ll do it again. So the Budapest Memorandum was an agreement to help Ukraine, but it wasn’t binding. Obama, Biden, Clinton — nobody has ever given security guarantees to Ukraine like we have in NATO.
So here’s what I’m asking President Trump to entertain. Let Putin know that if you do this again, you’re going to be running into a bigger crowd — not just Ukraine. The Europeans will have small ground troops as tripwires, and we will have a guarantee to Ukraine that if there’s another invasion, we’ll be a backstop. We’ll provide air support and command and control to defend you. If there’s a third invasion, I think that’s enough to deter that invasion.
I don’t mind if he does business with Putin because that’s a security guarantee of its own. If you do business with somebody, you’re less likely to go to war. The other thing I want to see happen is a 10-year commitment to the Ukrainian military from us — that we will sell them our high-end weapons through Europe and they will be strong. And that’s another form of deterrence.
BILL O’REILLY: Trump’s been resistant to that.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM: He hadn’t been resistant to selling weapons. He’s been resistant to a long-term commitment.
BILL O’REILLY: The big weapons, though, he doesn’t want to sell.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM: Well, we’ve given them the F-16s.
BILL O’REILLY: We’re doing the circuit thing. We’re selling them to Poland and Poland—
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM: Yeah, but they’re getting there. How do you end the war? The Donbas is going to have to — there’s going to be a trade there. There’s just no way to evict all the Russians. What does Zelensky need to sell his people on giving up territory? That I’ve got a deal we’ve never had as a country — we’re going to be standing as an independent sovereign Ukraine.
I want China to look at it and say, “Maybe it wasn’t worth it for Putin after all.” Because I worry about Taiwan. If you sell out Ukraine, there goes Taiwan.
BILL O’REILLY: Sure.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM: This is how the world’s connected. I’ve been very supportive. I’ve got a bill with 85 co-sponsors that will allow Trump to put tariffs on any country that buys Russian oil. That doesn’t help Ukraine. That’s what he did to India — India is now buying less Russian oil. So I’ve got a bill to do that. But I am realistic. I’m trying to find a solution to end this war so we won’t have a third invasion.
China, Venezuela, and the Oil Connection
BILL O’REILLY: Well, Ukraine’s going to have to give up some territory. But Putin’s not going to do anything until the Iranian thing is cleared up — 100%. He’s not going to do a thing. Why would he? Now pivot to China.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM: Let’s say we get Iran. We’ll never get a good deal on Iran if we get it right.
BILL O’REILLY: But it would get worse for the Chinese. The Chinese will be more bellicose. I was in Beijing in May, privately invited. I addressed the Politburo there. You didn’t know that. I haven’t been invited. I’m one of the few—
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM: Well, good for you.
BILL O’REILLY: —only journalists in history. Good for you.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM: I’m glad you went.
BILL O’REILLY: The only journalist in history who received that invitation, because they watch me on YouTube — where they’re watching you right now.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM: They watch everything we say.
BILL O’REILLY: That’s right. And the Taiwan thing can be worked out — it’s a wording situation. But what China is doing is what Putin’s doing. They’re just watching to see. That’s why Germany drives me crazy and Luxembourg drives me nuts. Because they’re all watching to see the weakness. Where is the weakness? And the weakness is in Europe — that’s where it is. Not Trump. You’re right, they fear Trump. But Trump was caught by surprise that NATO wouldn’t help. Look, if Tony Blair was the PM, you would have had 18 ships in there.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM: Yeah, he literally said that.
BILL O’REILLY: Right? And it would have happened. That shows you what these guys they have now. And you can’t control that.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM: Can I tell you what I think? China’s watching. And this is why everything does matter. China was impressed by Venezuela. China buys cheap oil from Venezuela.
BILL O’REILLY: Yep. And now they’re—
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM: Right, now they don’t. 31% of the known oil reserves are in Venezuela and Iran. They buy Iranian oil at cheap discounts. They buy Venezuelan oil at cheap discounts. That’s off the table in Venezuela. If we can get a new Iran working with us instead of against us, then that’s a big blow to China.
BILL O’REILLY: Well, President Trump is going to make China an oil deal.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM: Well, wait and see. The thing that people are also — I’m okay with you going to Beijing.
BILL O’REILLY: I have to.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM: I’m okay to do business with Putin’s Russia, if it advances our interests.
BILL O’REILLY: Yeah, but he’s a psychopath. Yeah, but he’s Hitler-light, Stalin.
Dealing With Bad Actors to Advance U.S. Interests
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM: Nobody can accuse me of being light on Putin. But we did deal with Joe Stalin to beat the Germans. So the point is, how do you get Russia out of the invading business? Security guarantees that make it not worth their time. Ukrainian military — well, let me tell you—
BILL O’REILLY: He’s got a million casualties.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM: Well, let’s just say this, my friend — a third invasion would be a hard sell to the Russian people. He’s one bullet away. Nobody loses an election in Russia. But every family’s got somebody who’s died. Eventually those numbers add up.
And all I can say is that we’ve got a chance, if we get Iran right, to get a better deal in Russia. If we get Iran right, we’ll have more influence over China because they will respect us. Cuba, Venezuela, Iran — all are signals right now.
Biden’s Failure and Democratic Silence
BILL O’REILLY: The opposing party, the Democratic Party, hasn’t really come out against the Iran strikes.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM: No, they haven’t.
BILL O’REILLY: No. They’re just kind of floating. But in my opinion — and you correct me if I’m wrong, because you have much more access than I did to the Biden administration — Joe Biden hurt this country enormously by sitting it out. What he did was he just sat it out and he allowed all the bad situations to get worse.
When he had the intel coming in every morning, number one, I don’t even believe he read it. Maybe Jill did. I don’t think he did. And number two, if he read it—
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM: He sure didn’t understand it.
BILL O’REILLY: Right. All the countries in the world go, the United States is just going to sit there. And this was after Afghanistan, which was
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM: so important at all.
BILL O’REILLY: That’s right.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM: Now, there would be no invasion. There would be no October 7th. There’d be no invasion of Russia by Ukraine. Again, I think without Afghanistan, because the
BILL O’REILLY: weakness then was exposed. Now, you would think that the Democratic Party, whatever that is. Now, I don’t even know who the. Who’s the leader of the Democratic Party.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM: You know, I know. I don’t know if it’s Newsom, AOC. I don’t know who’s going to be the nominee. But here’s what Newsom said, and I’m known. Gavin, he said that Israel was an apartheid state. That tells you how desperate you have to be and how anti-Israel you have to be to be the nominee for the Democratic Party. He accused Israel of being an apartheid nation like South Africa.
BILL O’REILLY: Well, that whole platform is controlled by the radical left.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM: But he bought into it. Well, he had to say it. He thought. I don’t know if he means it or not, but when he said it, it surprised me. I don’t know.
BILL O’REILLY: He’s got trouble. Can’t be doing Israel. He can’t clean up San Francisco.
The Danger of Ideological Extremism
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM: Well, our party can’t get that way. My party, we can’t let it get to be so bad in a way that you have to embrace things that are just inherently wrong. There’s an element of our party, my party, that doesn’t want any involvement, no matter how common sense.
I mean, if Trump hadn’t acted, they’d had 10 nuclear weapons. And that’s just. That’s just, to me, a fact. So these people who are ideologically driven, that they ignore facts, are dangerous. That’s true whether you’re right or left. If you get so extreme in your thinking that facts can’t change your mind, you’re in the wrong business.
BILL O’REILLY: But we have a country that lives now in an age of social media where people go in there and a lot of them believe what they are reading or hearing.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM: I don’t know if you could have done World War II in today’s environment, because by the time I get home, there are. About the time I leave here, there’ll be 20 stories on the Internet. “Lindsey Graham wants the 82nd Airborne to go in.”
BILL O’REILLY: Right. Right.
Section 230 and Social Media Accountability
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM: It’s just constant. And I just try to shut it out and focus on the facts as I know them and get an outcome I believe in.
But social media — one thing I want to do politically, beyond foreign policy, is, if your daughter is goaded into suicide or weight loss, or your kids are being preyed on by sexual predators on websites, you can’t bring a legal action. Section 230 under our law prevents you from bringing a lawsuit against a website or social media company for the damage they may have done to your family. That was to make sure the Internet would get started. Well, it’s started. I want to eliminate Section 230 protection so that you can go after social media companies that are terrorizing your family.
BILL O’REILLY: They’re not going to do that now.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM: We’ve got to fight. Well, we’ll come back and do the show about my bill to sunset in two years. I want Section 230 to be replaced by some vehicle to give people a safe haven.
BILL O’REILLY: I can’t see one Democrat on board.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM: I’ve got Durbin. He’s on board. He’s going to be gone. Well, but I’ve got other Democrats because they have grandchildren, too. This is the one issue above all issues that sort of unites people. If you’re a parent out there raising kids, sure. Yeah. I want to give you some hope. There are some issues that we can work out.
But the bottom line here is this is a time of testing. Afghanistan unleashed the bad guys in a way we hadn’t seen in a long time. Trump is reversing that trend. But this can all fall apart and go the other way if we don’t get Iran right. If Iran doesn’t turn out the way I think it can, we can actually go backward.
The Decline of Intellect in Congress
BILL O’REILLY: Now here’s a provocative question. You’ve been in Congress more than 30 years as a rep and a senator. I’ve been in journalism 50 years plus. I have seen — and I could be wrong because I don’t sit there like you do — a deterioration, generally speaking, of intellect. I’m seeing really dumb people. Really dumb people. People who don’t know history. They don’t really understand that if you don’t punish criminals, then the criminals will commit more crimes. These are just basic things that in our country were givens for hundreds of years.
And these people like Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, who went to Boston University, so did I. And her district is a disaster. She doesn’t know anything. And this woman’s going to be the next. She beat Schumer. She’ll beat him. Okay, Schumer’s done. And when you listen to her — and she doesn’t do interviews like this, she would never sit with me in a million years.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM: Does she write books?
BILL O’REILLY: She doesn’t know anything. Well, have you seen that across the board?
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM: Here’s what I’ve seen. When I first started this business, you got rewarded for problem solving and, you know, sort of knowing what you’re talking about. All the energy now is to be loud. Not knowledgeable, just loud.
BILL O’REILLY: Right. Partisan. Fetterman.
Problem Solving Over Provocation
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM: He’s doing what people used to do without even being noticed. So I tried to help Biden deal with Saudi, you know, Israel. I was in the Gang of Eight for immigration. I’ve done some things that our base doesn’t like because somebody’s got to solve these problems. Fetterman is trying to solve problems. The question is, will he make it or not?
If you’re running in a primary right now, your goal is to get as many eyeballs as you can. And how do you get eyeballs in this world? Be provocative. Provocative has replaced intellect. Provocative has replaced problem solving.
And what I want to do is to say, no, you don’t have to be provocative to win. You actually can go to the Middle East. My knock is, “Why are you over there? We need you here. Why are you supporting them over there when we’re paying more in gas prices here?” And I say the reason I go over there is I don’t want another 9/11. The last time we took our eye off the ball over there, they killed 3,000 Americans.
Then I end every conversation with this thought: Do you think if the Ayatollah had a nuclear weapon, he’d use it? Most people say yes. Well, let’s make sure he doesn’t do it. And how do you do that, sitting over here? I make an argument for smart intervention.
BILL O’REILLY: Well, you’re a guy who — you’re a conservative Republican, but you’re at least open to hearing the other point of view. And you have a frame of reference.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM: Well, I have a frame of reference, which is history. And it goes back to what you just said. Why do people — it’s almost as if World War II never happened. Sure, if you stop people out on the streets and ask them to name the Axis powers, they have no idea what you’re talking about. In a country that lets that happen, you’ll wake up one day and wonder what happened.
Schooling. All I can say is the deterioration of curiosity, willingness to ask questions, and the ability to solve a problem is getting harder because the reward is less.
BILL O’REILLY: Okay, we’re going to break away from the senator for a moment. Now, you premium members and concierge members are going to get another six minutes with Senator Graham. Only you see this. This is going to be very secret stuff, all right?
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM: And that will be the plan to win the war.
BILL O’REILLY: That will start momentarily.
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