Call Her Daddy: w/ Cara Delevingne – Sobriety & Self-Love (Transcript)

And even if it’s more like a vagina cave, maybe it doesn’t go anywhere. Maybe it’s more just like a cozy couch space. Yeah, I don’t know, a reading corner. It’s a different kind of vagina tunnel. The vagina tunnel’s matured.

ALEX COOPER: I love it so much. I was like, I know it hasn’t been a while since you’ve had it, but I just—

CARA DELEVINGNE: Oh, it’s one of my favorite things that I had.

ALEX COOPER: Yeah, and I had to bring it up.

CARA DELEVINGNE: No, you had to.

Going Back to the Beginning: Childhood and Growing Up

ALEX COOPER: I’m so excited to get to know you today, truly. I feel like I want to learn so much more about all of your life experiences, especially those that inspired this album.

CARA DELEVINGNE: How long you got, girl?

ALEX COOPER: Girl, I wore my cozy pants today.

CARA DELEVINGNE: I wish I wore cozy pants.

ALEX COOPER: I’m relaxed. I’m ready to get into it. This album is very personal. And there’s a lot that you talk about that I think does require us to kind of go back to the childhood a little bit.

CARA DELEVINGNE: Sure.

ALEX COOPER: So are you down to go back with me, Cara?

CARA DELEVINGNE: Yeah, I’m still there.

ALEX COOPER: Okay, let’s go.

CARA DELEVINGNE: Still regressing.

ALEX COOPER: So you grew up in London. What is the most British thing about you?

CARA DELEVINGNE: I mean, I’ve got England tattooed on the bottom of my foot. I don’t think that’s the most British thing about my personality, but it is. I’m a pretty proud Brit. I love the sense of humor. I’m really self-deprecating though — like, I’m really on borderline, like, I hate myself. Not anymore, I’ve done a lot of work on it, but I think that’s part of something about being British.

The dry humor — which I think a lot of the time in the beginning of my career people really didn’t understand that I was being sarcastic quite a lot. Or maybe I was also just in a bad mood and trying to play it off as sarcasm.

ALEX COOPER: Either way, isn’t that weird? In the beginning of your career you’re like, “Wait, no, that’s not what I meant.” And now it’s kind of like great to be misunderstood. Like, I don’t care.

CARA DELEVINGNE: I just — I think I was so desperate for love and for people to like me, so much so that I don’t really know what I was doing at so many points.

High Society, Family Expectations, and Wanting More

ALEX COOPER: I know that your parents kind of ran in circles that were considered high society. What was that like for you growing up?

CARA DELEVINGNE: It’s so interesting. I mean, people can see things like stuff on TV, right — like obviously The Crown. It’s not how I grew up, but in that certain way of like, there is nothing quite like British high society.

To me, it’s something I really didn’t enjoy. I was very confused by the whole thing of people growing up having a lot of money and not really doing anything and kind of feeling very entitled and having a lot and expecting a lot for really nothing. Whereas I grew up and I just really wanted — I mean, when I was a kid, I really wanted to change the world. I felt like I wanted to be a superhero. I think that came from a hero complex of trying to fix people and make people better.

For me, I really wanted to earn people’s respect. And I think there’s that thing of society where if you’re born into it, you don’t really have to do much. And people can be pretty horrible and pretty rude and spoiled. Not everyone — it doesn’t always work like that — but I think the circles that my parents ran in, I was like, I don’t like these people’s kids. They’re not nice to other kids, or they’re not nice to people who work for them. It felt very — I don’t know, I preferred going to raves and breaking into festivals and doing drugs in a park. Like, that was my vibe. I really wanted to do the opposite, I think.

ALEX COOPER: Is there anything though — I know you’re saying like, you kind of didn’t have to do anything, you kind of just had money and that was the expectation of like just go and then you become the next generation that goes into the wealth — but were there expectations in terms of the way you were supposed to act and the way you were supposed to present?

CARA DELEVINGNE: I think so. If anyone knows me, they know that I’m not a super put-together person. I think especially for my parents and for my family, manners are super important, and I believe it’s very important to be kind to people. But when it comes to like eating in a pretty way or whatever — I’m not — like, to be a model, for instance, and to walk well, oh my God, it took me so long to pretend to be graceful because I’m just not. I’m a feral human. I’m way more like a Neanderthal than I am a human being. That’s not the right word.

ALEX COOPER: Like, proper and grace were just not something for you.

CARA DELEVINGNE: No. And also, I think because my parents ran in these circles, I assumed when I was younger — you know, I went to incredible schools. I would go on amazing holidays. But for me, there was something that was missing underneath it all.

I think a lot about high society is that people try to really pretend to be perfect and act in a certain way, and everything has to be wrapped in a very neat box. And when I knew there was so much stuff going on underneath it, it really confused me. I was like, I don’t understand.

But there was a certain element where I was like, all my friends there and their kids, they get trust funds. When does that happen? My dad was like, “Are you kidding? You don’t have a trust fund.” And I was like, oh, so you run in these circles, but it’s not to the same degree, if that makes sense. It’s the perception of, you know, go to the parties and do all the things and look nice, but it’s not the same level.

ALEX COOPER: It’s not the same reality.

CARA DELEVINGNE: No. But also, I love my parents and there’s been a lot of — there was a lot of resentment I had towards my upbringing and growing up. But I also think because I pushed myself too hard, it took me a long time to get over it.

I think their perception of how it was, especially for men and women — you know, my dad had 3 girls and his ideal was for us to marry someone who would look after us. And I was like, that’s never — I never want to be looked after by anyone.

Childhood Struggles and Family Dynamics

ALEX COOPER: It’s so interesting, obviously generationally, when they have an idea for you and you’re trying to break away from it, but it also feels like then you are abandoning what your parents want, which means feeling like you’re letting them down.

CARA DELEVINGNE: And I also don’t think he thought it was possible for a woman to— I don’t know, in the same sense that I’m sure he did, but I also just knew I was different too. Like, I knew I was a little queer kid running around. I didn’t feel like I belonged in my body, in my family, in any of it. So I was like, yeah, anything you guys tell me, I’m not going to listen to. Which also is part of how I am in just terms of rules. I can’t really handle them.

ALEX COOPER: I also think something you said was so interesting and relatable for probably a lot of people growing up is the feeling of why are we all not talking about this? Why are we all pretending everything’s fine? And I remember you said from the outside my family’s life looked extremely privileged, but behind closed doors there was a lot more to the story. Yes, we’re talking about the parties, but can you kind of paint the picture of what your life did look like in the home with your parents and your siblings?

CARA DELEVINGNE: Unfortunately, my memory of a lot of it— my memory is my memory. It’s not fact. I can remember what I can remember. And unfortunately, the way that I’m wired, my brain will tend to hold on to darker things and trauma than it does the nice parts, which I know they were there, because there’s videos of it and there are memories I have of it that I worked really hard to remember.

I don’t feel like I had a voice as a kid in terms of— I mean, who does, I guess, at that age? But I don’t feel like I was going through a lot, and I don’t know what I was going through, but there was a lot going on with my mum, who especially was very sick when I was growing up, and I didn’t know how I felt about it, but I also wasn’t asked or wasn’t allowed to feel. And also, she was so sick, so I couldn’t make it about me. I just had to look after her. And that— I was actually really good at it, I loved doing it. But it overtook everything to the point where I still am really trying to learn how to look after myself at 30 f*ing 3. Sorry, excuse me. Can I swear?

ALEX COOPER: Of course. People always ask me— we’re not talking about vagina tunnel. Please swear. That’s also a very interesting theme in a lot of people’s lives— feeling like if there’s someone in your family that’s really going through it, then your problems aren’t as big as theirs. And I know you have talked about the struggles that your mom went through mental health-wise and with substance use. Is there a moment as a kid that you acutely remember being like, “Oh, something is off with her,” or was it just always a constant?

A Mother’s Illness and the Loss of Control

CARA DELEVINGNE: It felt normal. It felt normal until, being at a certain age where you’re told your mom’s going to die and being in hospital being like, I don’t understand what that means. And also the very physical, visceral memory of her being away a lot— either being in hospital or in rehab of some sort. And that feeling of not knowing where she was— no one told me, so I just thought she was dead and I didn’t understand.

And that’s when that kind of thing of trying to control the uncontrollable would come in, where I just would stop eating at 7 and just be on a hunger strike because I didn’t know where my mother was. I was not going to eat because that to me was the only thing I had control over.

ALEX COOPER: And what would you— like, would you ask your father and he wouldn’t share?

CARA DELEVINGNE: No, I didn’t understand. I just— I don’t know. Again, I don’t remember. And I think my dad— we all have very different memories of this. My sisters are 6 and 8 years older than me. They were teenagers, they were out of the house. My dad, bless him— my drive and my ambition— he works really hard, and to him, security and money is the most important thing, and to look after people. But in the same sense, he wasn’t around a lot, as much as I think I was around my mom.

ALEX COOPER: Well, and I think something, Cara, that is so weird as adults that we have to start to realize— which I have a lot of conversations with people about— is that we love our parents and we also were like, “That was a weird, f*ed up thing that happened in my childhood.” And I think it’s hard to grapple with that. You can still say that things did not feel right in your childhood.

CARA DELEVINGNE: Yeah.

ALEX COOPER: And both things can kind of exist. I think 100%, it’s an odd feeling because it seems like you’ve kind of made amends with your family, and you guys are on great terms. But also a child’s perception is everything. It doesn’t matter if you were seeing it slightly different than maybe your father was seeing it. That was your reality. And so the fact that you were saying, “I literally thought my mom was dead, I had no idea where she was”— that’s like, you’re in shock and you’re going through grief and all those things at a really young age, and you’re just alone. It seems like you didn’t really have anyone to talk to.

CARA DELEVINGNE: I just didn’t have the tools to talk. And I also think— I remember when I started dealing with my own struggles and my dad was like, “What do you have to struggle about? You’ve had everything you’ve ever wanted. Presents and holidays and a good school.” And I was like, “That’s not your fault for not knowing that,” but it’s not based on anyone’s fault. The conversation just was not there and I didn’t know how to have it. So I just held everything in to the point where I had a mental breakdown at 15. It was way too young and I had to drop out of school. But it also happened at the same time as starting to do drugs. To me, it all happened at once. And I still don’t think I found that proper way of talking about anything until, I don’t know, this past 4 or 5 years.

ALEX COOPER: Well, I think also because, like you just said, then you just kind of go on the run and you’re like, “I’ve got to figure myself out, I’ve got to get through this.” No one has time to f*ing think about their childhood until you finally can breathe a little bit and be like, “What happened back then, huh?” And it’s also like, to your father’s credit— I have had people in my life like this where clearly whatever happened in his life, he was able to plug those wounds with being like, “If I can be so successful, if I can get money and status, that will help me.” And you’re like, wait, the material things don’t mean anything.

CARA DELEVINGNE: And to his credit, he kept our family together. He could have left my mother— to stay with someone who had struggled and had been through so much, and not that she ever wanted to hurt people, but she hurt everyone a lot. And he stayed and he kept her together. And that to me is pretty incredible.

I’ve loved getting older in the sense that the resentment and the anger that you hold on to is just so poisoning. It’s honestly the worst. You can do anything to yourself, but when you hold on to stuff like that, you just get so sick. You really do.

The Weight of Repressed Feelings

ALEX COOPER: And I remember in one of your past interviews you said, “I didn’t feel like I had the right to feel. I didn’t want to cause any more pain.” That’s a really heavy burden to carry as a child, to basically force yourself not to feel. If you look back at that time in your life, what traits or habits do you think you kind of developed in response to being like, “Don’t feel, don’t feel, don’t cause anyone pain”?

CARA DELEVINGNE: Danger-seeking behavior for sure. Because I also think at some point around the time of the not eating, I also just started throwing myself off stuff. I broke, I don’t know how many bones in like a year. Because I was in pain inside, but I didn’t know how to express it. So I just wanted to feel pain. And it didn’t consciously happen in that way in my head. But I remember breaking my elbow straight through for the first time and going to the hospital and finding out it was broken and being like, “Oh, yay.” Like, I can finally have a cast and say, “Ow, I’m hurting.” It was like the first time I could feel like I deserved to say ow, right?

ALEX COOPER: Like have someone validate you and be like, “Oh, you must be in so much pain.”

CARA DELEVINGNE: Look, right? I’m broken. Pain.

ALEX COOPER: Ow. Oh my God. That’s sad, right? As a kid.

CARA DELEVINGNE: Yeah, it is. It is sad. I definitely now wish I had been more gentle with myself. I didn’t have the tools to do that, but now when I look back at photos of myself as a kid, I’m like, I didn’t deserve to then do what I did to myself. Because things can happen— it’s how you deal with them, it’s how you hold onto them. No one deserves to be hurt or to be neglected in any way, shape, or form. But I didn’t make it easier. I made it a hell of a lot worse.

ALEX COOPER: I know, but I also think that is something that humans— and it is frustrating. And I think especially as women, there’s a lot of this of like, when the pain is not something that someone can tangibly and physically see, you are dismissed and you’re discarded. And it’s like, “Oh, you’re being dramatic.” So really, with the repression— the quote I read of you being like, “I literally tried not to feel”— eventually your body was like, “We have to expel this, we have to do something.”

CARA DELEVINGNE: It’s like an exorcism, right? It has to come out. And also, my trait was I just wanted to fix other people but had no concept of receiving love. So in any relationship or anything, I’d be like, “Oh, that person’s not doing well. I can look after them, and hopefully— I wasn’t able to save my mom, but I could save this person, and that will hopefully wrong that right.” But then at some point someone would actually try and show me love, and I would be like, “Oh no, that’s not what we do here. I look after you.” I’m still not even equipped to do that at this point, but I would just run for the hills.

ALEX COOPER: Well, because it’s all you knew. It’s like, I love my mother, be there for her, everybody wait for her.

CARA DELEVINGNE: Yeah, and I loved doing it. Because it gave me a purpose and it helped me not think about myself, which I didn’t like doing at that point.

ALEX COOPER: So what happened at 15?

Early Drug Use and Emotional Turmoil

CARA DELEVINGNE: I was experimenting a lot with hallucinogens at that point, pretty young, 13, 14. Growing up in England and London at that time, there’s a lot of drugs and Ketamine was very big at that point. I think I loved what drugs made me feel. I loved not having to think about my mum. I loved not having to feel the pressure of not being good at school because I couldn’t focus or concentrate. The pressure of not feeling like I was good at anything or good enough or love myself — all of that, it went away.

And what drugs really gave me at that point, which is what I was desperately looking for, was connection. It wasn’t real. I mean, it is to some extent, but it’s not — it’s there, it’s tangible, but it’s not deep enough, right, for what you really need, maybe what you want. But I loved that part, and I loved the friends I had and the music and the breaking into — it was just like such an amazing period.

But then, especially with things like hallucinogens and when your brain is not formed yet, I just remember having a really bad trip, a really bad trip where I thought that my dad was God and my mom was the devil and I had to kill her to save the end of the world. Like, I lost my mind. And at the end of that trip though, I thought that Bill Murray, Tim Curry, and Jim Carrey were the same person, and I’m still convinced that they might be. I don’t know.

ALEX COOPER: Acid is a crazy thing to be determined.

CARA DELEVINGNE: But I really was also taking it like every day. I was doing it a lot. And my brain was just not stable enough to be able to do that. I just kept having bad trips, and I just became suicidal.

Because at that point, when I was in school, whether it was the drugs or the fact that whenever I was anywhere else away from my mom, I could feel her. I could feel her all the time. I could feel when she was in pain. She would call me. We were so close, so whenever I was away from her, I couldn’t think about anything else. It’s almost codependency beyond enmeshment, they would say.

So yeah, I was so confused because I also didn’t have a great relationship with my dad at that point, but suddenly something started to switch where I was like, maybe my mom’s actually not in the right here, and my dad’s actually not in the wrong. And why do I hate him and protect her so fiercely in life? I think my whole world exploded, and I was like, I think everything I’ve thought for the last 15 years is wrong.

And then at that point, especially at school — I wasn’t great at school. I loved what I loved, which was music and theater. But exams and sitting there, my brain just would go so fast. I also think I’m left-handed. I was forced to write with my right hand — not forced, I just did to fit in, I don’t know. But I couldn’t keep up with my head, and yeah, I would just try and knock myself out physically. And that is why I think that same feeling was why I started having a bad relationship with drugs, because I just wanted to knock myself out.

ALEX COOPER: Yeah, and escape. Did your family at this point in high school, when you were using, know that this was happening?

CARA DELEVINGNE: No. I mean, I’m the youngest by a pretty long way, so you just get away with more. I was also at boarding school, so I wasn’t using at boarding school. It was more like weekends, and it was when I would probably go to London on the weekends, do drugs, and then go back to school where all of it would just come and I’d be sitting there going, I can’t — my brain is just absolutely in turmoil.

Gaining Consciousness and Confronting Anger

ALEX COOPER: And I think also something that’s interesting, what you’re referring to, is I feel like everyone in high school starts to — you have a little bit of independence, you’re at boarding school specifically, so your brain does start to be like, what was happening in my childhood? A little bit, right? So you’re starting to lightly gain this consciousness that you didn’t have in those elementary, middle school days. And then you’re around more people at boarding school, you’re seeing other people’s dynamics. And the fact that you were like, is my dad the villain or is it my mom? And you’re holding —

CARA DELEVINGNE: Who am I angry at? I’m so angry.

ALEX COOPER: Mm-hmm.

CARA DELEVINGNE: That was honestly the hardest thing — the anger. Because I didn’t know who to be angry at. I was so angry at the world and I was so angry I couldn’t make my mom better. And every time I would go home, something would be different. It was out of my control, and then I’d have to go back to school. I felt like I was split. I was never in one place. I was like, my head’s here, my heart’s there, I don’t know where I am.

ALEX COOPER: And so drugs? And that helps kind of — all the question marks and all the curiosity, it alleviates that from you so you can kind of —

CARA DELEVINGNE: But it doesn’t wipe it, it puts it under a rug. And then the rug — you’re a hoarder.

ALEX COOPER: You’re a hoarder.

CARA DELEVINGNE: Hoarder of trauma.

Dropping Out and Entering the Modeling World

ALEX COOPER: You drop out of high school and you pursue modeling full-time. How did everyone in your life feel about that decision?

CARA DELEVINGNE: Not great. And that was not something I was like, “Oh, I’m going to drop out and do modeling.” It was more that I have to drop out because I will either do something stupid at school — I’m so depressed, I’m going to do so badly, I’m either going to get expelled. Like, I have to get out of here. This is not helping the situation.

And I think I needed a shock into — because I was like, “Oh, school, this is such a nightmare, my life’s so hard, this is so difficult.” No, the real life, the real world is way harder. But I needed that. I kind of needed that reality check. And my parents were like, you know, you had to take a year out of school. You managed to get your shit together. You were put on antidepressants and went back and — but now you want to drop out. Like, you have to have a plan. You can’t just — my parents are also like, you need to go to university. It’s like that stuff.

And I was like, well, I’ll have to figure out how to find a job. I was scouted at a rave. Also, my sister had been a model, well, is a model. And yeah, I mean, I was like, I did it because I was like, “Sure, you want me to be a model? Like, good luck, I’ll do my best.” As long as it means I can leave school and get out of here. But I definitely wasn’t like, “This is going to work.”

ALEX COOPER: And then, and then you become one of the most recognizable faces in the world.

CARA DELEVINGNE: Just the eyebrows.

The Rise of Cara Delevingne

ALEX COOPER: You’re so right, just right above those eyes, girl. It looks like you literally took over the world. And so the fact that you’re like, “Oh, I gotta get out of this fing school, like, maybe I’ll give this a try,” and then it’s Cara Delevingne is fing everywhere. Do you remember what that early, early success felt like and recognition?

CARA DELEVINGNE: No, I don’t remember. It’s weird. I remember before, and I remember lugging my book around with the model friends that I made and being a stupidity on the tube and going to all the castings and being told I was too short or not pretty enough. And I was like, “Oh f*, this sucks. This is really way hard. This is not easy.” Also, if you do a show, you don’t get paid. I’m like, I don’t understand where this goes.

I got a job at ASOS. It was 5 days a week. I had a paycheck. I was like, “This is it, this is my life. I’m so happy.” I can move around the corner from the ASOS building. I became the number one internet model clicked on for ASOS. Like, it was a massive deal. I really was like — I got my free sandwich every lunch. There was also like a sample sale for like £5. You get a bag of clothes. I really, that was like a very highlight point and I really thought that that was going to be it.

And then yeah, I remember I’d been into Burberry before and I’d done the show castings and I remember even walking out in the jacket and the woman just being like, “No.” Like before I’d even walked or even said anything and you’re like, “Oh God.” So I remember going in there again and being like, “Oh, okay, I’m being back again.” And meeting Christopher Bailey, who was like, “What do you like to do?” And I was like, huh? What do I like to do? Oh, well, I mean, I love to act. That’s always been my dream. And I play the drums and guitar and I would love to do music. I just don’t think I’m good enough. I just never been asked that before, especially during modeling. I was like, this is the weirdest thing.

And the next day I was doing the campaign with Jourdan Dunn and Mario Testino shooting it on a beach in Brighton, freezing cold. And I was like, “Oh, this is different. This is really different. These clothes are different. This environment is different.” You’re in the PVC plastic jacket and it is so cold that you’re getting blood blisters down your arms, but it’s fashion and you’ve got to make it look good. And you’re in high heels on a pebbled beach and you’re like, whatever I’m going to do, I’m going to make this look easy.

But that’s what I’d done my whole life — go, “I’m going to make whatever pain this is look good.” Yeah, I’m going to serve the c* no matter how much pain I’m in. Yeah, I’m going to make it look hot and I’m going to make people want it.

ALEX COOPER: Was any of that sudden attention or validation healing immediately for you?

Modeling, Identity, and the Fashion Industry

CARA DELEVINGNE: I think the thing that I found wonderful, and I’ll never not appreciate and love Christopher for this, is that showing me that people— there were people that cared more about some other stuff. And to be able to be— I wouldn’t have had a career without that and without him, because especially when one brand wants you, then everyone wants you, and the whole thing happens.

And I was just like, but it also gave me a pretty fickle view and a bit of a chip on my shoulder of like, you all told me I was not good enough and you all made me feel like dog shit and now you all want me and that sucks. But also, f you, look where I am now, bitch. Yeah, I did fing— I loved it, I enjoyed it, I loved going to shows and everyone at that point being very like, modeling is so important, you know. I don’t know what accent that is, but just it being so serious and I was like, what are we all doing here? Let’s get crazy. Let’s put on my favorite— let’s put on Biggie Smalls and f*ing go.

Like, I loved shaking everything up because I was like, people taking my picture, I’m going to do weird faces because I don’t take this seriously and I don’t feel pretty. Like, what am I doing? Everyone thought I was either very annoying, which I can see how I was. Like, I could look back at myself and go, wow, that would have really— this little thing just bobbling around, but also like, it’s a lot. Or people were like, wow, that’s different.

ALEX COOPER: I was going to say, I remember obviously we think of models and we just expect them to be seen and not really heard. And you brought this personality that was— even if we didn’t hear you actually speaking, was just like popping off the page. And it was so loud and it was so exciting to see. But I agree, I do remember some backlash of people being like, what the f* is this girl doing? What is she doing? You’re not taking it seriously. You’re not working.

CARA DELEVINGNE: Hard. You’re not— which— but to me, I was like, we’re taking photos here, and like, if we’re all sitting here being super serious, no one’s having fun. I don’t really understand. Isn’t it lucky that we get to do this but then enjoy it? Play music, have fun, and sing and dance. And anyone that, especially at that time, who knew me as a model, all I would do is sing and dance and be— that’s what made me feel comfortable on set.

ALEX COOPER: But did you ever have people be like, you need to stop?

CARA DELEVINGNE: They just wouldn’t hire me. They just don’t hire you, or they do it once and then you never work with them again. But I had people— I was pretty polarizing. I was quite vocal about how I didn’t think modeling was like— the fashion industry was healthy for girls and for so many people. I was in a really fortunate position and was in a top percentage where I was making money. But so many of these girls were taken from countries and parents and the agencies. That was why I started really feeling quite empty, because I didn’t like what I was representing. And when little girls would come up to me and their moms and they’d be like, “My daughter wants to be a model because of you,” I was like, don’t, don’t do that.

ALEX COOPER: That’s a weird feeling, Cara. Because you’re like, the thing that I’m doing for a living, I don’t believe in it.

CARA DELEVINGNE: I don’t believe what I’m selling, and what I’m selling is a lie.

ALEX COOPER: Sorry.

CARA DELEVINGNE: Oh, that’s what it felt like though, because it also wasn’t me. Like, it was me, but when I’d see a billboard of myself, it wasn’t me.

ALEX COOPER: Oh God, that’s a mindf*.

CARA DELEVINGNE: Because it’s not— I’m a girl who wears a hoodie, smoking a joint, f*ing walking around bare feet, like a little rotter. Like, I’m not this. Like, what?

ALEX COOPER: The billboard—

CARA DELEVINGNE: Like, it didn’t make sense. My friends found it very bizarre. Like, I came back from doing it at Victoria’s Secret and my friends were like, “We didn’t know you were like hot.” I was like, what? And then they were all trying to like— they were like, “Which one of us is going to f* her first?” I was like, this is horrible. Like, I’m no different. It’s just a padded bra and latex.

ALEX COOPER: I do think though, something— and that is why you’ve had such success— is because you have never dimmed that side of yourself and you have stayed persistent and consistent from the day you got into this industry, and the fun kooky faces that you brought and the personality. I think that as alienating as it probably was in the beginning, because you’re all like, wait guys, we all are in on this, right? This is f*ing crazy that they’re doing this to these women, and some of us are really privileged from where we come from, so we don’t have to maybe do certain things. But you’re like—

The Dark Side of the Fashion Industry

CARA DELEVINGNE: And it’s also to do with the body stuff, the body shaming, how skinny everyone wants, the racism, the everything surrounding it. It was really a pretty rough time. I mean, listen, the ’90s and everything were different because I think everyone was on drugs, but it turned into a thing where everyone just became really mean. It was just mean. And people would do things and really degrade you because even if you were a really big model, some would be like, “Why don’t you stand on her head in a high heel?” Or, “Why don’t you get on all fours and bark like a dog?” That’s because it made people who had been in the industry, who were assistants, who’d been treated badly, feel big and feel important. And it was just like, oh, I’ll do anything you say because I just— right?

ALEX COOPER: And they’re perpetuating what actually was so painful to them coming into the industry, and then it just keeps going and going and going. And then it does take people like you though. That’s what I’m saying. It’s like, at first it probably was alienating, but then I do think you refusing to conform in some capacity allowed room for other women coming up to look and be like, oh well, look at Cara Delevingne. Like, if she can do it, I can do my own version of that.

CARA DELEVINGNE: It makes me so happy when I see models, and listen, I’m never going to be like, it was me. It’s not. But it definitely— I think with social media and people having more of a voice, I also think that was something that allowed me to feel like, oh, I am a person actually, and I can— oh, this is fun. And if I don’t talk, then what else am I here for? And to see people like Alex Consani and stuff— the personalities now, it makes me so happy because it does make me feel more that— there’s still a lot of work that needs to be done in the world in general, but that at least people are being celebrated for being individual in their personalities, which it was back in the day.

ALEX COOPER: And I think we have to recognize as women that when you felt like, oh God, I’m kind of this outlier doing this, it feels that way, but then now you’re referencing Alex and all these other people. You clearly were able to do something that then allowed some room for the next generation to do something, and it will just continue. But it feels small, but in the collective, if you look at history of what women who push the boundaries do— like, what is that quote? It’s like, “Well-behaved women rarely make history.” And it’s like, here we f*ing go.

CARA DELEVINGNE: Well, I remember seeing something, I think it was Jane Fonda who talked about when she was younger making funny faces. And I don’t know why I did it. I never really understood why. I wasn’t trying to do it. It’s because I felt so not pretty and I felt so stupid posing all the time that I had to do something with my face. I never do that anymore. Maybe it’s because I don’t want to get wrinkles, but also because I feel way more comfortable.

But I remember her talking about it and I was like, oh my God, it’s this thing I can’t control. Like, maybe it felt like a bit of a tic. Like, I do have tics, so I think it could have also been that. But it was interesting, especially when you learn more about women who come before you and women who pave the way. They’re always more likely to rewrite history, exactly what you’re saying, by not conforming.

ALEX COOPER: It is. And it’s almost like Freudian for us. Like, you had that thing of Jane Fonda and it seeped into you, and then someone is thinking unknowingly about Cara Delevingne as they are going into their field. So it’s like it all is a trickle-down effect.

CARA DELEVINGNE: I mean, I definitely stick my tongue out, so— but that’s—

ALEX COOPER: We love that version of you, Cara. I have a couple pictures I was thinking about. Oh no, social media.

CARA DELEVINGNE: Oh God, yeah.

Reflecting on Iconic Photos and Social Media

ALEX COOPER: A reason you also— you just said it yourself, like, you were able, I think, for us to see your personality and you were able to shine is because Tumblr, social media, like, that was such a huge part of you when you kind of came on the scene. So I have a couple pictures. I just want your reactions to that.

CARA DELEVINGNE: Okay. Like facially?

ALEX COOPER: Anything. Whatever you want.

CARA DELEVINGNE: An interpretive dance. Okay.

ALEX COOPER: Oh my God. Okay.

CARA DELEVINGNE: I still have that t-shirt. You do? Yeah. And that hat. Oh my God, I’m a hoarder though. I told you this.

ALEX COOPER: This photo, it like broke Tumblr back in the day. Did it?

CARA DELEVINGNE: Obviously. I wasn’t super aware of Tumblr. When people talk about it now, I was like, oh yeah, I never—

ALEX COOPER: You were like the face of Tumblr.

CARA DELEVINGNE: Yeah, I don’t know. I wasn’t aware.

ALEX COOPER: What an honor, darling.

CARA DELEVINGNE: No, I wasn’t aware. I really wasn’t.

ALEX COOPER: People still comment this photo in your comment section on TikTok. Like this photo, Cara.

CARA DELEVINGNE: I love—

ALEX COOPER: Do you remember anything about where this was taken? What this photo is?

CARA DELEVINGNE: No idea. No, babe. There are so many photos of myself that I see and I’m like, couldn’t tell you when, where, who took it. No idea.

ALEX COOPER: Every girl wanted the eyebrows. They kind of were like a staple. Do you remember the commentary on the eyebrows and did it make you more self-conscious or more confident?

CARA DELEVINGNE: Really good question. I hated my eyebrows. My mother was always like, “You’ve got to keep them.” But I don’t know. I just remember as I got older— when I say I don’t remember any of it, I think because fame is even more powerful of a— whatever happened to my central nervous system, I was so completely burnt out and shocked. I was like, I’m just going to black this all out. That wasn’t even when I was doing— I think I was doing more drugs when I was a teenager. And that period of time, I was just working so much. Obviously, I was probably partying a bit, but yeah, I don’t know.

It’s when I got older and people would ask me about my eyebrows all the time, it annoyed me. I was like, please, I have other things. I was like, I can’t talk for them. I wish they could speak, but I don’t know how to explain them. I don’t know what they would say. Like, what? It’s like trying to represent a part of your body that I wish had a voice. It doesn’t. I’m so sorry.

ALEX COOPER: Okay, here we go.

CARA DELEVINGNE: Oh my God, I love that picture.

ALEX COOPER: I love that. So good. What do you remember about this iconic photo?

Modeling, Identity, and the Victoria’s Secret Show

CARA DELEVINGNE: I do remember that because it was around the time where it was like me, Jordyn, and Carly, and we were all Leos and we were bopping around New York and they were like the height that models were meant to be at that point, which was like 6 foot. And I was 5 foot 7 and a half. I say 5’8″, but whatever.

And that again, I loved a statement tee. I loved a cap. I don’t even know if I thought I was gay at that point, but I was eating a sticker saying, “Eat your girl right.” Yeah, I remember that photo. I don’t remember it being taken, but I remember seeing it.

ALEX COOPER: Okay, I love this video. Okay, next photo.

CARA DELEVINGNE: Yeah, this is fun.

ALEX COOPER: Oh God, this is you at the Victoria’s Secret Fashion Show in 2012. Oh my God, is it true you were originally supposed to come out on rollerblades? And why are you like shying away and looking and blushing? What is this bringing up for you?

CARA DELEVINGNE: Because anyone that asked me if I could rollerblade, juggle, drive a car, anything that I couldn’t do, I’d be like, “100%, I could do that.” I couldn’t. Wasn’t good. Because I always had a confidence that if I really tried to do something, that I could.

I mean, they asked me to do that maybe a day before, and in the rehearsals, rollerblading — is it skating? It was the four wheels skating down the thing, and the catwalk is slippery. I was closing that section, I think, at that point, and I fell, and Justin caught me, and they were like, “You have to do that again, you have to close the show like that.” I was like, sorry, basically because I didn’t know how to stop at the end. So I fell and he caught me, and that was very sweet. But I was like, on live TV, no, I can’t do that. And that’s probably one of the first times I said no.

But also those shows — I was not sober in the sense that, I don’t want to speak for the rest of the girls, but that is not a nice — it wasn’t a nice environment personally. I think something about — I don’t know what my gender expression would be. I’m very happy and proud of being a woman, but it definitely changed how feminine I — what is the word — how feminine I seem or come off because of modeling.

Because it felt like, growing up, I had short hair, I didn’t like having long hair, I didn’t like wearing girls’ clothes. I really didn’t like being a girl because I just thought the girls didn’t get the same opportunities. They didn’t get to play with the toys that I wanted to play with. So I think for modeling, I really had to become this girl that I wasn’t, and this like sexy — that’s just not —

ALEX COOPER: And this was peak presenting. So presenting, presenting, presenting. You were presenting so ultra feminine, and that’s not who you are at all. And so before that, that was fun.

The Undercover Lesbian at Victoria’s Secret

CARA DELEVINGNE: It felt like dress-up. But then there was something darker about it because also that show — I was in the closet. I was gay. I was also like, am I the only lesbian who’s ever done f*ing Victoria’s Secret? Like, this is a big deal. Yeah, shake your asses. You want me to do up your bra? Like, 100%. I was having a great time, but also very confused. I felt like I was an undercover lesbian.

ALEX COOPER: No, you’re backstage being like, “No one knows, but okay.”

CARA DELEVINGNE: I remember seeing Candice Swanepoel and being like, I faint. This is such a weird story. Oh my God, we were in a hotel room eating pizza and — I hope she doesn’t get angry that I’m telling the story. It was really funny. She came in the bathroom. I think maybe we were smoking a joint. I don’t really know. She came in the bathroom and she took off her clothes, not in a sexual way. That’s what models do. And I passed out. I fully passed out. I was like standing up and I had to fall back on the toilet. She was like, “Are you okay?” I was like, “Mm-hmm, 100%, I’m fine. Are you okay? I have something in my eye, you know.”

ALEX COOPER: You’re like, “I gotta get out of here.”

CARA DELEVINGNE: It was a lot. Like, the gay panic. People talk about gay panic now.

ALEX COOPER: Like, I was constantly panicking. And I think that really makes sense though, now looking back. Like, first of all, this baby Cara having so many —

CARA DELEVINGNE: I can’t, I can’t, I can’t.

ALEX COOPER: With the butt up again.

CARA DELEVINGNE: I woke up, probably had a couple shots of whiskey and a Xanax, and you wouldn’t get nervous to walk a runway after that. I was having a time of my life after that.

ALEX COOPER: Horrible. I do think that is so illuminating to that entire time period because I do think that seeing you up there, so many women would look at you and just be like, “I want to look like her, I want to be her.” And that’s real life though. This is like the same thing as Instagram where you’re like, babe, no, not so —

CARA DELEVINGNE: The amount of cutlets in that, bro. Like, especially because everyone else was very womanly bodies and skinny and muscly and whatever else. But I am still up and down like a little rig. Like, I have no ass. At that point I was like, “I’m not a Victoria’s Secret Angel, I’m a devil. I’m not part of this.” I remember when they asked me to be one, I was like, “I don’t think I belong here.”

ALEX COOPER: And then you do it, and it kind of goes back to the beginning of what you were saying about modeling, where you’re like, “I don’t fully know if I believe in this, so this feels weird,” so you’re going to numb yourself essentially to get through it.

CARA DELEVINGNE: Yeah.

Cara and Kendall: A Friendship for the Ages

ALEX COOPER: Okay, this is so cute. Are you ready?

CARA DELEVINGNE: Oh yeah, hi. Okay, okay, okay.

ALEX COOPER: The internet is obviously obsessed with you and Kendall Jenner’s relationship and all the iconic photos we have of the two of you. Do you remember who came up with this friendship name? Was it you guys or was it the internet?

CARA DELEVINGNE: No, it was us. Oh God, I don’t remember. I don’t know, but I had necklaces made, bro. I think it was us. I’m pretty — Cara Kendall, okay, I don’t know actually. That is a super good question.

ALEX COOPER: Okay, but you leaned in.

CARA DELEVINGNE: Maybe it was that Love cover that we did for the first time, which is where we basically really became friends and met. That maybe it was on that cover where I’m holding her or she’s holding — I don’t remember.

ALEX COOPER: But you have such iconic friendships that the internet is obsessed with. Do you enjoy leaning in and doing stuff like this?

CARA DELEVINGNE: I think at that point it was so — because it felt like, especially when you have friendships when you’re modeling like that, I wouldn’t have been able to do it without any of those girls that supported me through it. Like, especially Jordyn Dunn, and women who even before Kendall, when I was really young, were f*ing worried about me. And they were once being like, “What are you doing? This is so bad, you’re working too much.” Whether it’s agents are giving you drugs to get to walk on catwalks or whatever else. I had really, really solid friendships of people who were really honest with me. So when you have that camaraderie, yeah, you want to lean in. People are going to take a picture. You’re a model at that point.

ALEX COOPER: You’re like, “Let’s go!”

CARA DELEVINGNE: Yeah, we’re on a world tour. That was our — we went to — I took Kendall to Glastonbury, and Gigi was hysterical.

ALEX COOPER: Oh my, that’s amazing.

CARA DELEVINGNE: It’s hysterical.

Fame, Excess, and the Wounds It Magnified

ALEX COOPER: I think you’re talking about having externally all these crazy levels of success. And you have said before, and I think this quote is really profound, you said, “If you have problems going into this industry, they will only get magnified and exacerbated.” How did your career heighten all of these wounds from childhood for you?

CARA DELEVINGNE: Access to excess. So money. And my dad was pretty smart with me when I left school because he was like, “I’m not going to give you money.” I remember when I had a mental breakdown, I told them I’d been smoking weed. Like, they didn’t know I was doing drugs, but either way, they didn’t cut me off. I still lived at home, but they weren’t — they were smart about that.

But then I have my own fing money. I could do whatever I wanted, and I knew where to get all the drugs and all the things. And I also was in a friendship group where none of my friends had money, so I was just like, “Let’s go, let’s fing go! This is going to be so fun.” And at that point, we were like, it’s going to be entourage, we’re all going to live — love that.

ALEX COOPER: I also can’t help but think you’re in the middle of trying to figure yourself out. We talked about high school, you’re repressing, you’re kind of using so you can just be like, “I can’t handle this, I don’t know what’s going on.” You get thrown into fame, and like you’ve talked about and I’ve talked about with a lot of people, there is no way to describe it, but it’s hard to not just black out. And you can look back on it, but when you’re in it, you just have to survive and go, go, go.

CARA DELEVINGNE: Mm-hmm.

ALEX COOPER: And so you’re trying to figure yourself out. You have all this attention on you. How is this impacting your dating life? And like you said, that Victoria’s Secret moment, you hadn’t come out yet. You hadn’t explored your sexuality fully. Tell me about that.

Identity, Sexuality, and Self-Discovery

CARA DELEVINGNE: Well, also, back to what you just said before as well, it’s also an identity thing. And I think when you come from being like what feels like a kind of traumatized child, not to be dramatic about it, to then a suicidal, druggy teenager to then being a model that you’re not, but you’re pretending to be so many things for people. You actually— I’m like, who the hell? I haven’t processed any of this yet. This is all a mess. And I’m none of these things, or all of them.

I really felt like such a shell at that point, and I remember writing a lot about how I just was a mirror of everyone I’d ever met, and there was nothing underneath it. I was just an empty vessel. Not to be depressing about it, but especially with dating. Oh my God, it’s rough because again, I didn’t want to be gay. I really wanted to fit in with people. I didn’t know any gay people. I definitely wasn’t straight.

And especially in something you’ve been so incredible in talking about, I never knew how to ask for what I wanted. And it was very much a performative thing where I would be like, whatever this guy— and to the point where, you know, whether it’s sexual assault or it’s like to the point where you’re just like, oh, I’m just abusing myself to basically make someone happy. If you want to have sex with me, I should feel lucky for that. Like that kind of thing. Horrible.

But then, you know, I discovered more about my sexuality through sleeping with my friends because there was a safety in that. That also didn’t mean we were gay. We all had boyfriends, but whatever happens when the lights go off, that doesn’t really mean anything.

But then I started to look back on when I was a kid and I was like, I always had this thing where with friends of mine, I just think I cared about them more than they cared about me. But then I also realized that any man I’d ever been with— and I feel very bad for these men because they’d always— I think I’d play such a role of this cool girl who loved to play video games and would let them flirt with people but was just like so cool and chill that they would fall in love with me. But I was so pretending to be something I wasn’t.

I feel any man that I hurt, I feel really bad because I did take these actually very nice guys for a ride because I didn’t know. And I also, I was quite hurt by one guy specifically. He took my virginity and I was like, after this I’m going to hurt all of you. It’s so rude and mean.

ALEX COOPER: But I do think it’s like— yes, so you can be like, okay, I’m sorry boys. But I also think in the grand scheme of what you were trying—

CARA DELEVINGNE: They didn’t also want me. Even when I tried to speak about maybe my sexuality being slightly different, they were like, “No, no, it’s not. I’ll show you.” That kind of stuff. It was very much like— but that was so back in the day.

ALEX COOPER: That was— it’s also so men where you’re like, no, you can’t show me shit. You don’t have a vagina, okay? So f* off. And they’re like, “Oh, I’ll show you.”

CARA DELEVINGNE: My clit is here. It’s not here.

ALEX COOPER: Oh wow, Cara. Okay, that makes— I think so many women regardless of, you know, what they’re dealing with, I do think that’s a really relatable thing of just going through that period as a young woman of being like, is this validation? Should I just feel good in this? And should I not ask for more? And if he’s treating me like this, like, I can look past it because at least someone wants me and someone is, you know, giving me attention. And so then you—

CARA DELEVINGNE: When you said something about validation and it helping me, in my head it really did because it helped my ego. It helped my ego in the sense that I was like, maybe I am pretty, but it didn’t come from inside. I think something that I really had to learn is that I really believe that we all have everything we need inside of us, and I was so externally reaching for anything that I just was empty. And so you really have to grow that garden in yourself.

Accepting Her Sexuality

ALEX COOPER: I guess you do. And from, you know, then experimenting with your friends, do you remember when you finally realized like, okay, I think it’s women for me?

CARA DELEVINGNE: Immediately, deep down, immediately. But I couldn’t— my brain was not computing that. It was not happening. Like, absolutely not. But my body was like, “Oh, this is where I feel safe.” And then my heart— I couldn’t control— I always felt like I was in control with men. Like, I could kind of run around with women. And it was a nightmare. But also I think there was still a lot of trauma with the thing of trying to fix people and the abandonment, which I think I put into a lot of my relationships for a long time.

ALEX COOPER: When do you think your mind and your body connected and you were like, I have to accept this?

CARA DELEVINGNE: I think when I was in my first real relationship with a woman, and I think I’d never been with someone who was gay either. She was 10 years older than me, and I really admired her. I’d never been with someone who was actually gay and not— we’re kind of in secrecy and stuff like that. And I was like, “Oh, this is everything.”

ALEX COOPER: How did you feel with regard to your upbringing? And I know you had said like, I didn’t really have anyone around me who was gay. How did everyone handle it when you did come out and just say, like, this is who I am?

CARA DELEVINGNE: Oh, I didn’t come out because that’s again a conversation that I didn’t know how to have, and I didn’t feel like I owed that to anyone either. And I think it would be unfortunately different and I think I would have found it a lot harder if I hadn’t have been famous or successful, because I think you can’t really have an opinion too much when that person doesn’t need you or is not vying for your— I mean, of course I always want to make my parents proud, but they couldn’t stop me, and I felt like they would have been able to have an opinion more if— I think that was also just part of the drive of wanting to look after myself and survive on my own and be like, I can do and be with whoever I want.

ALEX COOPER: And I think that’s very relatable. I think when you are financially or emotionally dependent on people— and I think that’s why a lot of young kids are so scared to come out, because they’re like, I still live under their roof, I know what their reaction is probably going to be. And so it’s so fear-based because it’s not just, you know, coming out and being open about your sexuality, which should be such a beautiful and celebrated thing. There are so many repercussions that can come that actually, safety-wise for a lot of people, it is a privilege unfortunately, which is so crazy to even have to say to this day.

CARA DELEVINGNE: No, it is.

ALEX COOPER: So I see what you’re saying where you’re like, I had kind of cut those ties in that way of I made my own money. I was this public person. So if you don’t like me, you can go f* yourself kind of. And what a freeing feeling that must have been.

CARA DELEVINGNE: Yeah, but also at that point, the industry didn’t want me to be gay either, you know. Why? But like, at that point, when I just started acting, Harvey Weinstein called me and was like, “You can’t be gay.” It’s just stuff like that where— again, there were also no real gay models. But it’s weird because now as I’ve grown up, there are so many people I went to school with, or people I was close with, who now were all gay, but we didn’t know it at the time, but we were all friends. And you’re like, that’s just interesting. We all had this thing that we knew, and now everyone, you know, they have wives or— and you’re like, that’s just crazy.

The Weight of Suppression

ALEX COOPER: At that time, when you were trying to search for relationships, what do you think in those mid-20s was holding you back the most from happiness?

CARA DELEVINGNE: Because I couldn’t love, I couldn’t receive love, and I didn’t love myself enough to have healthy sexual experimentation in the sense that I think I had my healthy fair share of sexual experimentation, but it was usually fueled by drugs, danger-seeking behavior, situations where I thought, “Oh, that’s a fantasy I have,” but I didn’t really actually want that, you know? And I think that came into that thing of just wanting to feel something, even if it’s bad and even if it’s empty.

And I also think it took until all the Harvey stuff too, to really realize that I had been sexually abused. And I hate to use the word rape, it just always makes me so sad, but that kind of thing. And I’d put myself in those positions but never admitted it or wanted to deal with it or made excuses for it, felt bad. But that made so much sense with how I would just let people use me a lot, whether that be sexually or in any other way, because I felt like that’s all I was good for sometimes.

ALEX COOPER: So can I ask, so he called you and told you you cannot be gay, and is this before or after this experience with this man?

CARA DELEVINGNE: It was before. It was still when everyone was doing these movies, bopping around, you know. He had his wife who was, you know, in that industry. I’ve been to dinner with both of them, with a bunch of people. He had a wife and kids. He seemed safe, right? And he got my number. I was doing a movie called Face of an Angel in Italy, and he called me up and said there were images of me, and he named some famous women I’d been seen with. And he was like, “Are you sleeping with him?”

ALEX COOPER: Whatever.

CARA DELEVINGNE: I was like, “I don’t really know if that’s any of your business.” And he was like, “Well, you can’t be with women. You’ll never be an actress. You’ll never be hired. People don’t want— we’ll have to find you a boyfriend. At least if you’re going to do that, just do it behind closed doors.” And I was like, “What the f is this?” But at that point, that wasn’t my reaction. I was like, “Oh f, I’ve always wanted to act. This is such a big deal for me. I can’t—”

ALEX COOPER: You’re terrified.

CARA DELEVINGNE: Yeah, like he’s a big deal in this shit.

ALEX COOPER: And how did you respond in that moment?

CARA DELEVINGNE: I don’t know. I just said, “I’m not gay. I promise you I’m not. I’m not seeing a boy right now. I really love my female friends.” And of course I didn’t. I think even the people he brought up, I don’t know. I can’t remember. But yeah, I was pretty terrified.

ALEX COOPER: Of course, because it’s a person in a position of power who’s literally talking about how you won’t work in this industry if you essentially are authentic and true to who you are. And so you are just getting reconfirmation of like, hide, keep suppressing.

CARA DELEVINGNE: But also at that point, every role I played was straight. I was the lead and I had a boyfriend, and I was playing that woman. So I mean, was he right at that time? No, but at that point, what was I going to do, right?

The Turning Point: Sobriety and Facing the Darkness

ALEX COOPER: And again, I think for you, Cara, it was like there’s so much pressure of like the Victoria’s Secret moment and this. You’re like, I know what I want, but it’s like, how do I get there? Like, how do I roll this out for myself in a way that won’t make other people upset and won’t have people trying to hurt me because of me just trying to be honest to myself? And that is so complicated. And then like you said, like you then are in these situations where you’re using and you’re trying to suppress, and then you’re also repressed, and it’s like, whoa, I need all this to kind of stop so I can try to get my head on straight. I know you have like lightly spoken about your sobriety.

CARA DELEVINGNE: Not a lot.

ALEX COOPER: Yeah, yeah, not a lot. And you talked about this earlier too, where you’ve said you tried to match the emotional pain inside with physical pain on the outside since a very young age.

CARA DELEVINGNE: Age.

ALEX COOPER: Can you talk more about what that just looked like for you as you kind of started to get to a peak where you were like, maybe this is getting a little out of control?

Drugs, Isolation, and the Descent

CARA DELEVINGNE: I think, as I said, when I first started doing drugs, it was that seeking for connection. And I felt like I found myself. I was fun. And I loved music and I loved dancing, and I was like, “Oh, this is someone I really like, this is really cool.”

It was at a pretty young age I started — because I didn’t have money at that point — I started buying drugs to sell them and to do them. And I remember ketamine was really the first thing, which is a really crazy thing for me now, because I remember when I got sober from that, and that was in my early 20s, it blew up in America. And it was like this thing to treat depression everywhere — Instagram adverts, billboards, people talking about it. I was like, “What?” I mean, I knew it numbed me out like 100%, but like a lot of things, people don’t realize the danger behind that — because how badly are the things you’re running away from, and how badly when you numb them, they all come flooding back. They don’t go away. They don’t.

So that’s when I think — when I bought the drugs to sell, I just did them all by myself. Not all of them, I sold half of them, did the rest. So I basically did the drugs for free. Wasn’t a great drug dealer. But I definitely — I knew it was bad when I started doing them alone and how much I liked that. And how much I knew that people weren’t judging me and I didn’t judge myself for it and I could disappear. And I knew it was a problem, and that was young.

But with work, it’s not a problem because I’m working, I’m making money. I would be in a state or I’d definitely be more f*ed up than people, but I am going to work. When you’re in your 20s, you can kind of do that a little more, but then my body just couldn’t take it.

I think the kind of suicidal ideation came back around when I was at my height of fame, when I should have been the most happy, and I felt the most guilty, and I felt the most like I didn’t deserve any of it, and I was so close to ending my life. Music at that moment really saved me, because a song came on on shuffle when I was alone in this hotel room, and it was a song that played at a friend’s funeral who died of an overdose.

And it was like — that’s the thing, when you’re in that position where you can choose to try and end your life or not, it is such a quick flip. And in that one moment, I was like, “What am I doing? Why am I doing this? I can’t believe that I am in this place.” And I threw all the drugs down the toilet. So yeah, it had been a problem. But when you’re successful and when you seem like you’re doing great, you have your hair and makeup done, it’s kind of fine. People make excuses. People are making money. You’re paying for people’s lives and jobs and kids. You don’t want to stop. You don’t want to say no.

Hidden in Plain Sight

ALEX COOPER: Did you have friends close to you that ever were like, “Cara?”

CARA DELEVINGNE: Yes, but also — if I say I was good at hiding it, people will be like, “No, you weren’t.” But if people thought it was bad what they saw, they didn’t see half of it. The damage was really being done alone because that’s where no one could stop me. And also, I was so good at flitting around different countries and different groups of friends. If I haven’t slept for 3 days, but then I see these group of friends and I’m still whatever, no one knows how long I haven’t slept. No one knows that I’ve been partying for this long.

ALEX COOPER: You can kind of get away with it in a way that — but unfortunately for you, it’s like then you also have — you’re like, “Oh, I’m lying and I’m avoiding.”

CARA DELEVINGNE: The lying is the worst. It’s horrible. It’s a secret. And that just wears away at you so much. And that was also — I didn’t realize how many friends I lost. Not even lost, but had pushed away. Because there was nothing no one could do. And I didn’t want help. I didn’t want people close to me. I didn’t want people — I could talk about it when I was high. I’d be like, “I know I have a problem, I know it’s really bad,” but also there’s a power in having that because then you seem really self-aware, right?

ALEX COOPER: You’re like, “I’m owning it.”

CARA DELEVINGNE: “I know it’s bad, I know how bad it is,” and I had all the answers. I’d also been to therapy since I was a kid from stuff that had gone on with my mom, so I knew all the chat.

ALEX COOPER: You knew how to get around it. So people are like, “Oh well, if she’s this open about it then…” But really, it seems like you earlier had said it was so — I connected with people, and it’s like it went from connecting to then isolating and hiding. And that is when no one’s really seeing it at its worst. I know there were paparazzi photos of you.

CARA DELEVINGNE: There were many, by the way, throughout my — throughout my tenure. I don’t know why I just said that, but obviously the worst ones.

ALEX COOPER: The Burning Man photos. Ultimately, I know they kind of became a wake-up call. Can you talk to me about just where you were at mentally leading up to that moment?

Burning Man and the Breaking Point

CARA DELEVINGNE: Yeah, I had sworn myself off love. I had been in too many relationships — I don’t want to say that, but I think when you abuse yourself, you allow abuse to happen, right? That’s probably as far as I’ll go with that. But I think, yeah, I was done with love, and I was in a pretty hardcore time.

Again, I’d stopped doing ketamine, but it’s really interesting, the drugs that people choose to do and what that means about what they’re covering up. Alcohol was never really my thing. I would drink, but I didn’t like it. I liked dissociative, knock-yourself-out things. So I was doing a lot of GBL, GHB, which is like a date rape drug — you’re just effectively knocking yourself out — and then taking cocaine or whatever to keep me awake. So it was that kind of mixture.

But I’d met my girlfriend, my current girlfriend, my life partner, who we went to school together. And from the moment that we had re-met after school, I was like, “F*, you make me feel safe.” And that is something I haven’t felt. And I am way more terrified of that than I’ve ever been of love. Because in that even immediate moment, I was like, “Oh no. I’m starting to realize how bad this is.” You don’t know how bad it is when you’re alone and single, I guess.

And I was honest with her from the first get-go. I was like, “I have a problem. I take G every day. I’m going to get better.” My 30th birthday was that year. I was like, “I’ve f*ing had it for however long, and had a great time, and it’s just not great anymore, but I’m going to have a blowout 30th birthday and then I’m going to get sober.” And it tied up in a neat little bow that I just thought was going to be really easy.

I didn’t know how addictive that stuff was. I just thought I took it every day. I didn’t know that you really had to medically detox from it. And I started having seizures. And those photos were taken right after I’d had a seizure at Burning Man, and I was meant to go to work. It was just an absolute storm.

And it was right after my birthday, so I’d had the 30th, which was just — it was so stupid, but I’d rented this amazing house and I had all my friends there, but they were kind of all there to watch me hurt myself. I was so skinny and covered in bruises, and I just locked myself in this little tower and would barely come out.

But that was what I — I don’t know, there’s something quite traditional in the sense that when I make a decision, it’s going to happen. I also just couldn’t give up that easily. And then obviously I went straight to Burning Man, then that happened. And I was like, “I can get sober.” I’d been to rehab before, but I’d focused more on trauma. And then I’d kind of dip back into things.

The one thing I always told myself was — because my mom did very heavy drugs — I was like, “If I don’t do meth or crack or opiates, I’ll be fine.” But if you do enough of anything, it’s just as bad. Which is really interesting, and which is why I found it important not to talk about what drugs I did. But then it’s interesting the comments that people make when they’re like, “Go back and do meth and die,” and stuff like that, when I’m like, maybe I should have spoken about it. Why am I hiding?

Because I want people — I think especially getting sober, I didn’t see anyone else who did the same drugs I did, and I was always like, “Oh, they do Adderall, and that’s alcohol and opiates.” When you find someone who has a similar thing to you, it’s like finding a long-lost sibling in a way, because you’re like, “You’re running from a similar thing. There’s a similar torsion there.” The battle of it feels the same. So I felt it was necessary to talk about it today. I’ve never done it before.

Speaking the Truth Out Loud

ALEX COOPER: Well, I really respect that too, and the fact that I was —

CARA DELEVINGNE: But people always thought that I was on such crazy drugs. I was like, a lot of those times though, I was so manic. And also, I’m a super hyperactive person. I don’t drink coffee and I am just — it’s a lot sometimes.

ALEX COOPER: How does it feel to say it out loud?

CARA DELEVINGNE: Nice. Nice. And I’m sweating though, for sure, but it’s nice.

ALEX COOPER: Is it like a relief?

CARA DELEVINGNE: My whole thing is, again, with this stuff people are going to take clips of what they want, and that’s always going to be what it is. But I’ve made peace with it. And if I can help people, anyone can say whatever they want. I know what I’ve done. I’m happy with who I am. I don’t have any regrets. I love myself. I’ve stopped hurting myself.

I do sometimes still, in ways that — like dangerous seeking behavior — will push myself too hard to work out. It comes out in other ways. But also, to me, sobriety is not so linear. 12-step really helped me, but that’s not what’s been my saving grace. And I think the whole thing of sobriety and the shame and the guilt surrounding it, I found really difficult.

Confronting Sobriety and the Public Eye

ALEX COOPER: I can imagine that. I want to— because I want to ask you about that, but also validating you in like so much of what you were going through for so long, you were saying you were hiding, and there was a secrecy element, and there was this rationalizing you’re talking about in your head of like, “Well, I’m not doing what my mom was doing, so I’m fine, I’m fine,” right?

And then it’s almost like naming it allows you to own it in a sense and be like, “There, that is what it was, and I’m not hiding from it at all. I’m not hiding anymore, and I’m not going to hide from it,” because there is also no shame. And like, you’re sitting here today, and you’re right, it really could help someone who’s sitting there being like, “Oh my God, I never thought that that could be addictive, and I’ve been doing it too, and maybe I need to look at myself.”

Whatever it is, or it’s just for yourself, that you’re able to f*ing say it and move forward with your life in a way that’s not shame and holding it back, I think that’s really beautiful. Yeah, but getting sober, and also the element of being so public. Like, I can’t help but think these videos and these photos come out in one of your worst—

CARA DELEVINGNE: I always laugh, and I don’t know why I do that, and I apologize. It’s because it’s so outrageous. I was wearing a Britney Spears t-shirt. Not that that means anything, but like, it’s so— but also, like, I’d seen that person. I know that girl so well. I had to look at her every day in the mirror. So when everyone else saw, I was like, “Oh, that’s scary to people.”

ALEX COOPER: Oh shit, I see. So you— it wasn’t even— you’re like, “Oh, those are pictures of me.” And then did—

CARA DELEVINGNE: I mean, I realized it was bad, but oh, it was horrible. The shame. Oh, the shame was really bad. Again, that was that part of myself that I hated and I was hiding from everyone. So for everyone to see it, it was like, “F*, the jig’s up.”

That’s still— that person is still a part of me though. Once you get sober, that girl isn’t gone. She’s here. She’s pretty mean to me sometimes, but I made friends with her and she makes me want to be better. And God, she’s a stubborn b sometimes, but my God, yeah, I mean, you have to make friends with that part of yourself.

ALEX COOPER: So much of your— the songs and the album is talking about this part of your life.

CARA DELEVINGNE: Yes, never-ending inspiration.

The Path to Sobriety

ALEX COOPER: Can you talk though, because you just said like, you know, it wasn’t this 12-step program for you. Like, what was that process for you like of getting sober, and what really helped you?

CARA DELEVINGNE: There’s a narrative, right, about addiction that is, you know, abstinence is the most important thing, and it’s very rigid. I don’t do well with that. But they also will tell you, you know, “Addicts always think they’re different. You’re always going to think you are the one that’s going to cheat the system.” For sure, I feel that way. I know it’s not healthy. I know I have to combat that sometimes, but I also know that that system for me hadn’t worked in the past. It didn’t.

There’s a part of it where, like, you know, whether it’s, “Oh, I’ve decided to— I’m going to try and microdose a mushroom,” right? In previous iterations of sobriety, that would take me down. That my count has gone back to zero again. I’m not sober. I can’t call myself a sober person. Then that cycle of guilt and shame— “Oh, I’m done now, I’m not sober, so now I’m f*ed up and now I’m going to do drugs”— was so strong and such a pull.

I also, like, in my head, when I’m told I can’t do something, when I have the option to go, “I could go have a beer but I choose not to,” the power I have in that is something I would never realize I could get. And like, I love people doing drugs. Not— that sounds like a crazy thing, but I love the culture. I love music. I love festivals. I loved that part of going into a bathroom with loads of people and talking. So I still love doing that. I just don’t do the drugs because they don’t work for me.

But the whole thing of like, “You cannot do anything because this will happen”— it was too— I would prefer to— I don’t feel like they’re mistakes, but I would prefer to toe a line of I’m not trying to walk an edge. I’m never trying to go back to what I was doing. My priority is clarity, sobriety to the utmost, and loving myself. And so I never want to go back to that place, but I also think just pretending it doesn’t exist and never seeing it and never doing it isn’t how I get there.

ALEX COOPER: Giving yourself some grace. Yeah.

“I Forgot” — Sobriety and Raw Emotion

ALEX COOPER: In your new single “I Forgot,” you describe—

CARA DELEVINGNE: Do you know how much I say “I forgot” without knowing it now? And I say it every day, I’m like, I’ve got to— I forget a lot of things.

ALEX COOPER: Well, it’s good because you named your song that.

CARA DELEVINGNE: Yeah, it’s ideal.

ALEX COOPER: And now you’ll never forget. Never.

CARA DELEVINGNE: Never, never.

ALEX COOPER: You describe how jarring it can be to experience daily life while now sober. What were some of the first things you noticed and had to kind of confront as you really started to wean off what you had been using?

CARA DELEVINGNE: Oh, I was just so fragile. I was so fragile. And I, you know, another point was that I first started talking about me getting sober for American Vogue when I was in rehab. And having that conversation and being like, “I’m going to be sober now, this is what I’m doing, and I’m going to do a Vogue cover and I’m going to talk about it.”

I was still— what I felt like was that I was a baby. You feel like a newborn child, but who can technically talk and walk and feed themselves, I guess, and hopefully change your underwear. But you are not fully formed. Your brain is like, yeah, a lot. Again, when I was— I wrote a lot of that stuff and poetry. A lot more of it was so intense when I was using, so it wasn’t as extreme, but you’re just a raw nerve.

And that’s what that song is about. I don’t feel that way anymore, thank God, but I still relate to it. And I love that song because for me it’s that thing of like that softness of a phrase and then the whiplash of absolute distortion, like being slapped around the face with a sonic boom. And that’s what it felt like being in my head and in my body. And when you talked about like your head and your body syncing up again, it’s like my body and my head started to talk again. But that’s what the different sounds were happening. It was just like—

ALEX COOPER: That’s what you said in that Vogue piece. You said, “I hadn’t uncovered the fing hole inside, the real whirlpool within.” Now, as you are— that, because that was in 2023, and you’re like, “I was basically a baby deer walking around being like, guys, I know I’m saying I’m sober, but like, this is Bambi all night with the feet fing spread over. We’re trying here.”

CARA DELEVINGNE: We’re doing our best.

Uncovering What Was Repressed

ALEX COOPER: Now it’s like, what have you found inside of you that had been repressed and waiting to be uncovered? Of all of these wounds of childhood and repression, and then you just get famous so you don’t have time to think about it. Like, has anything come up recently that you’re like, “I’ve now been able to kind of tackle this?”

CARA DELEVINGNE: That is the first question I’m like, I— it’s a really interesting question in the sense that you mean like tackling things that happened or that happen now, or things I’ve learned about myself?

ALEX COOPER: Anything, anything that you’re like, “Oh my God, I realized from childhood because I was never able to feel the way that I da da da da da,” or “When I was using I felt this anger.”

CARA DELEVINGNE: Straight back to anger.

ALEX COOPER: Mhm. And where does the anger come from?

CARA DELEVINGNE: I have a pit of anger in me because I never expressed it. And I think, yeah, when you grow up loving someone who is sick and you can’t help them and you would die to save them and there’s no reason for it, you have no one to blame. You can’t really blame them. You try, it doesn’t work, you just hate yourself, because they’re sick.

There is this fing anger that you have that you’re just angry against the world, and but then also angry at yourself for feeling angry because you’re like, “There are so many people with so much worse s in this world. How do I feel?” It’s just that sick.

ALEX COOPER: But anger is a secondary emotion.

CARA DELEVINGNE: But I also—

ALEX COOPER: Well, so what’s underneath the anger, Cara?

The Album, Anger, and Creative Fire

CARA DELEVINGNE: Oh, I don’t know. I really love anger and my relationship with it now. It is a secondary emotion, but I also think for me it’s like a fire. I need it to come out. It doesn’t have to be anyone, but it has to come out in a healthy way, otherwise I hurt myself. That’s it.

So there isn’t— and look, I cry, I would feel as much as I can, but there is something— I can’t describe it. And it feels like whatever stuff I had to deal with after I was coming off of drugs, I would black out with a physical trauma thing. And it came from this— I can’t describe it. You just see red or black and slide, and I would wake up on another side of a room. And it just comes from this repressed thing. And I think that’s what the anger is. It’s just the repression of so long— it’s just that.

But with that comes so much creativity and fire. And for this album too, I feel like I can be angry and funny and sexy in a way that I like, not in a way for anyone else. And every emotion that I was scared of, I now see as an amazing gift. And I never had that. I was so scared of feeling.

ALEX COOPER: Well, I think that’s— yeah. And it’s like you’re making space for all these different emotions that you also weren’t able to feel while you were using. I wrote that down. The other single, obviously, Out of My Head, which is great. I love it. It talks about these intrusive thoughts and dissociation. And now, having been living in your sobriety, how are you managing these emotions on a daily basis? What have you been able to process after coming out of that kind of dissociating?

“Out of My Head” and Getting Into the Body

CARA DELEVINGNE: That song’s really interesting because it was based on the idea of being at dinner with a family— not mine specifically, but maybe— being at a dinner with people and everyone’s talking but no one’s saying the truth of what’s really going on underneath. And originally the song was called Talking Heads because everyone’s just chatting and no one’s really f*ing saying it.

And that song, for me, it was funny because changing it to Out of My Head is something I constantly am trying to do— is get out of my head and into my body. But people can take it as “I want to get f*ed,” which I just like the dichotomy of that, because I also don’t want this album to be like, “This is a sober album and people who have to listen to it really have to understand Sprite.” It’s really interesting when I played it to people because people think it’s about something completely different, which I love that part about music.

How do I deal with it every day? It’s really hard sometimes. This period of time, the last couple of weeks, have been a lot harder than I’ve realized. With rehearsals starting but then going to the Met and Cannes and everything else, and feeling like this music coming out and these live shows is the most important thing that’s ever happened in my life.

And I am someone— I used to be someone that used to go, “Well, this thing is my next goal, but then that needs to happen,” and then there’s never enough. I don’t want to say I could die happy, but it is— everything has led me to this point. And when I’ve done other things like movies or Cabaret on the West End or something, there’s other pressure on other people to make it good. So there’s less pressure on you because you’re like, “Everyone needs this show to be good, so it’s going to be good.”

It felt like it was way more on me, or I was putting it on me, because no one else is going to be like— I mean, they are, but in the sense that I’m like, it’s you, it’s you. I’m doing this and I’m choosing to do this to myself, and I’m driving myself crazy because the pressure I can put on myself is sometimes unmanageable.

So yeah, it takes a strain on my relationship. My incredible girlfriend has been so supportive through this. I wouldn’t have been able to do this without her, this whole process. She’s a musician. I was so scared about what her reaction was going to be.

ALEX COOPER: What was it?

The Support of Her Girlfriend and the Birth of the Album

CARA DELEVINGNE: She was so incredible about it. I cried. It was so soon after I got out of rehab, and I remember every day I prayed to create something with this pain and to have the clarity and the confidence and the awareness and all of it to be able to make something from it. And I didn’t want to name what it was, but I was like, “What else would it be? What else would it be?” I write all this stuff. I’ve done music my whole life. This is not new for me. This is always something I believed I was going to do when I was older. I just knew I couldn’t do it until I had gotten to this place of belief and self-love.

I remember crying to her in the shower and being like, “I don’t know what to do, but I have to do music, and I don’t know what you’re going to say.” And I think in previous relationships I’d had a thing of whether it be competitiveness or some people may not take that well if that’s their job or whatever.

And especially because in so much of the sense— and I’m sure many people will say this— I’ve had a leg up. I’m not starting from scratch here in terms of music. “People are going to listen to this. They might listen to it because they want to hate it. Fair enough, but people are going to have eyes on it more.” That may be a gift, but it also might be a curse. But in that sense, I’m starting with a head start.

And I never wanted to do this unless I thought it was incredible. And I hate saying that because I’m really not someone that believes in— or feels proud of myself— but I really needed it to. So that if anyone brought this out, it didn’t matter, that it would still be good and people would love it.

ALEX COOPER: Well, that’s what— it was so interesting. I was reading all these different quotes. You had once said this is your biggest fear and your greatest love. You also said you were scared to explore music for a long time because you cared too much what other people would think. Yeah. And now obviously we’re hearing that progression of you now have gotten to a place where you’re like, “Well, it is f*ing perfect and I’m happy with it, so you better like it.”

CARA DELEVINGNE: It’s not perfect. But it’s no way— oh, trust me, there are notes. I still— there’s so many things I would change.

ALEX COOPER: But how long did you work on this directly?

Building the Album: From the Studio to the Stage

CARA DELEVINGNE: As soon as I got sober, I said to my team at the time, “I have to get in the studio.” And they were like, “Sure, but how—” so many people are like, “You really have to want to do this.” And I’m like, “I get it, I really need to. I don’t know what it’s going to be yet.”

I’ve had many iterations of doing music and being in the studio, but again, I would mold myself into whoever the producer wanted me to be. And I was like, “Oh my God, I can do that or this,” and it just never felt right. So I just started from the get-go, and in that first week of sessions, every single one of those songs is on this album. That first week was so— the first song is The Mask, which will come out, and then every day was one of these songs, and they were really heavy. Those first group of songs were really heavy. And over that period of time, I was finding the joy in it. I was finding my voice in it. I was trusting my creative instinct more.

I don’t know, it’s definitely not perfect, but I couldn’t— I won’t want to change it now. I know how my head is, and I could have worked on it forever, of course. But yeah, it’s been basically since then, and I think doing Cabaret really helped. I’d never performed live before, but really singing, no help, with a mic every night, moving around— and really, there’s no hiding in that play. There’s no soft pop star timbre to your voice. You are f*ing belting and screaming and crying and hitting yourself. And I was like, “Oh, I can be that nuts, but I can do this for myself. That’s rad.”

ALEX COOPER: I also am thinking about you sharing this first with your girlfriend, and then did you do like a listening party for friends? No, no, no, no, no, Cara. So like, has Margot Robbie heard it yet?

CARA DELEVINGNE: No.

ALEX COOPER: Yes.

Sharing the Music and a Sneak Peek

CARA DELEVINGNE: What? No, Margot’s had some. People have had— listen, until things are done as well— okay, I also like— my girlfriend’s incredible because she’s f*ing honest with me. And so I’d come back and be like, “Look how good this is.” And she was— so I was scared. I was scared, but I needed that from her because also when she would say something, I would go, “No, no, actually I like how it goes into a weird time signature and bends and sounds like you’re being slapped around the head with a distortion.” But yeah, it helped in that sense. I’ve played songs to people, I’ve sent people a video.

ALEX COOPER: Oh my God.

CARA DELEVINGNE: But everyone says something so similar, which is, “It’s so you, but I didn’t expect what that would be.”

ALEX COOPER: That’s exactly what I said to you when we sat down.

CARA DELEVINGNE: I remember what you said, but also that is literally what everyone says. And it’s really— that is, as an artist— I still find it hard to say sometimes— as a musician, it is one of the nicest things you can hear.

ALEX COOPER: Because I said that to you. I was like, “I don’t know, what should Cara Delevingne sound like?” Because we know your personality, but I had no concept of how that would translate into music. And I remember pressing play and being like, “Huh, this is incredible.” And you take us on a ride that was so unpredictable and yet, in hindsight, so predictable to who you are that it all makes sense. It was so unexpected in the best way because again, we had nothing to pull from, we had no concept.

Okay, so we have two singles, I Forgot and Out of My Head, that’ll be coming out. Then I heard that maybe you’re down to give us a little sneak peek. Yeah, of another song. Yeah, just play us a little something. Yeah, can you give us any context?

A Love Song for Her Girlfriend

CARA DELEVINGNE: Yeah, context. Yeah, it’s about my girlfriend. She is one of the most— she hates grand gestures. She couldn’t— I’m definitely one of those people like, “Write a song about me, oh my God, I would love—” we’re very different in that sense. So I wanted to piss her off in a cute way by writing her a love song. But it’s also like, “Sorry, but this is a love song,” you know? It’s like apologizing for the fact that I can’t help it, I love you so much.

ALEX COOPER: When did you first show it to her and what was her reaction?

CARA DELEVINGNE: Oh my God, that’s such a good point. I don’t remember because it was so— the original iteration was not good enough yet, and I knew if I had to play that to her, like, that would be the first thing, especially if that song wasn’t good enough, that she’d be like, “You can’t— I’m so sorry, you can’t put that out.” So I really—

ALEX COOPER: It took me a while. “Babe, this is like a disgrace to our relationship.”

CARA DELEVINGNE: Like, “Don’t do it. Please.” I’m like, “God damn it.” And especially because she— the worst part is she’s an incredible guitarist. I could listen to her play guitar and sing forever. But in this, I play guitar— I’m not— I’m fine. I’m fine at best. Listen, I’m still getting better, but I’ve decided in the show that I’m going to shred a guitar solo, which again, the pressure— when we went to school together, she’s just the pressure of playing her any of this music or playing in front of her. Oh my God, when she is a phenom of a guitarist, makes me die a little bit.

ALEX COOPER: But she supports this song.

CARA DELEVINGNE: She really does.

ALEX COOPER: She loves it, and that’s all that matters. Okay, play us a snippet.

CARA DELEVINGNE: Come on. No, but also, I can’t help it. I love her, and she’s going to have to deal with it.

ALEX COOPER: No, it’s all been so sweet.

CARA DELEVINGNE: Yeah, I know.

ALEX COOPER: We’re not asking about techniques today, you know.

Music, Sobriety, and Final Thoughts

CARA DELEVINGNE: Why not? I thought that’s what I was here for. Sex education, girls. Let’s go. A little bit crazy, baby, baby. I’m out of my head. I’m sorry, this is a love song.

ALEX COOPER: I love you saying, “I’m sorry, this is a love song.” You’re like, “Hi babe, sorry. Hi, I’m sorry, Cara.”

CARA DELEVINGNE: It’s definitely the more poppy one, but that’s the thing about that is all the other songs are quite heavy and about abusive relationships or whatever. And that song I was like, “Oh, let’s just go have fun.”

ALEX COOPER: Yeah, joy, rad, love, love. It’s so fun, and I love that you did that for her where you’re like, “You have no choice. I’m sorry, I’m writing you a love song, take it or leave it, but it’s going to be in the album.”

Yeah, it’s so incredible, and I’m so excited for you. I can feel your genuine passion. I feel like you’re right, like we’ve seen you do so many different things obviously throughout your career, but this, to see how you talked about obviously modeling and you’re so grateful for everything it gave you, but the amount that you are passionate about music. I think hearing your whole life story, it’s like you’ve been kind of waiting to find you and your thing, and it feels like that is this, which is really beautiful.

CARA DELEVINGNE: It’s like a perfect little crossroads because also the music industry is not easy. You have to really want to do it. And I really — again, kind of like writing that song, I don’t have a choice. Like, it is where my heart is, it is where my head is. There is nothing else I can do right now. I don’t know how to describe that.

ALEX COOPER: And you’re about to go on stage tonight.

CARA DELEVINGNE: Yeah.

ALEX COOPER: Are you —

CARA DELEVINGNE: No, don’t. No, I have to transition into like — yeah, yeah, it’s freaking me out. But yeah, no, it’s going to be fine.

ALEX COOPER: You’re going to be fine.

CARA DELEVINGNE: You’re going to be completely fine. It’s funny because the show’s called Getting My Shit Together, and so — I was like, “I’m not going to invite anyone I know,” and I’ve invited everyone that I know. Now I’m like, “What am I doing?”

ALEX COOPER: Because it’s harder to do things in front of people you know. Yeah, like if you were playing that song in front of a bunch of randoms, right?

CARA DELEVINGNE: I’m already nervous though, playing that song just now, and I’m not even singing.

ALEX COOPER: No, but because now we know each other more, but like if you’re playing it for randoms, you’re like, “Take it or leave it.” Yeah, the people you’re friends with, you’re like, “Don’t look at me in the eyes.”

CARA DELEVINGNE: No, don’t. I played it to two of my friends, two of my oldest friends. Well, my oldest friend and her fiancé, I should say. But it was just two of them in the studio and the lights were pitch black. I couldn’t even look at them. I couldn’t open my eyes. And I look over and my friend’s just sobbing, and my friend doesn’t cry. And I was like, “Oh my God, that makes it even worse. What am I meant to do?”

ALEX COOPER: Oh God, you’re going to be amazing. You’re going to be so amazing. This album is going to be amazing.

CARA DELEVINGNE: I can’t wait for you.

ALEX COOPER: I’m so excited for you. I think so much of what you’ve gone through in your life, it’s really inspiring to see how you are sitting here today and what you have done with every aspect of your life and your career and how you’ve kind of molded it all together to make it be your purpose, essentially. It’s really, really inspiring, and I think so many people are going to love your story. They’re going to love the music, and they’re going to love the music video. We got budget, baby. Oh, we got budget, girl. We got budget.

CARA DELEVINGNE: The persuasion I had to do on that. No, seriously, thank you.

ALEX COOPER: Thank you so much.

CARA DELEVINGNE: And I also just want to say thank you. I really love what you do and what you stand for. I think it’s incredible. So to be on here and talking about this was a very big deal. I was honestly more nervous about this than I was about doing the show tonight. But I also love the fact that finally coming and talking to you now feels like the right time.

And also, for anyone who feels stuck in their life — I’m not saying sobriety is for everyone, but what it did for me — obviously I had definitely had more of a problem than most people do — but what it can do, just because this society we live in, we are so filled with so much information and pain and so aware of what’s going on in the world, that escaping and numbing is so easy. And so whether people have a problem or not, escaping is always a problem. So to be able to get sober with your friends, even if it is for a period of time or whatever, is never a bad thing. But it also doesn’t have to be perfect.

And also any sort of creative endeavor or any endeavor that makes you uncomfortable will always allow you to grow. And if you are ever stagnant, just keep moving in that sense. So, oh girl, wide mouth open.

ALEX COOPER: Done, done. Thank you so much. Thank you, Daddy.

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