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Home » Transcript of Professor Jiang Interview with Raj Shamani: World Order Is a Lie

Transcript of Professor Jiang Interview with Raj Shamani: World Order Is a Lie

The following is the full transcript of geopolitics analyst Professor Jiang Xueqin’s interview on Figuring Out With Raj Shamani, August 11, 2026.  

EDITOR’S NOTES: In this episode of Figuring Out, host Raj Shamani sits down with Professor Jiang Xueqin for a wide-ranging conversation that challenges the foundations of the current global system. Jiang argues that the established world order is largely an illusion sustained by hidden power networks, America’s three-pillar strategy of dominance, and deeper historical and financial forces, while offering bold predictions for the transformative upheavals expected over the next 50 years. From empire decline and geopolitical realignments to the roles of figures like Trump and Epstein, the discussion delivers a provocative look at the forces shaping our collective future.  

The Making of a Geopolitical Skeptic

Raj Shamani (00:02:17 – 00:03:26): What got you into geopolitics and the game of prediction?

Professor Jiang Xueqin (00:03:30 – 00:03:41): In politics was the election of Donald Trump in 2016, because for me that was a very traumatic event.

Raj Shamani (00:03:42 – 00:03:42): Why?

Professor Jiang Xueqin (00:03:43 – 00:04:07): Well, because it didn’t make any sense to me. You know, I went to Yale. I did one school. You were taught that everyone’s reasonable, the world is logical, the best and the brightest reach the very top. So how could Donald Trump win? So that forced me to reexamine my worldview and reconstruct a new political understanding.

Raj Shamani (00:04:08 – 00:04:09): And why do you think he won?

Professor Jiang Xueqin (00:04:10 – 00:05:07): I think he won because the elite screwed up. I think he won because the elite became incestuous, they became insular, they became arrogant, they became self-righteous, they became corrupt and incompetent, and people were sick of it. I mean, he won. I’ll tell you exactly the reason why he won. Because in 2008, Obama promised hope and change. And this was a time when Wall Street bankrupted the American economy and they were blatantly corrupt. They should have all gone to jail and Obama promised hope and change and there was just a tremendous optimism in the air and he won by a landslide.

Raj Shamani (00:05:07 – 00:05:07): Yeah.

Professor Jiang Xueqin (00:05:08 – 00:06:30): And he comes into office and he appoints Larry Summers, Tim Geithner, these people who caused the Wall Street collapse in the first place, and they bail out their best friends, Goldman Sachs, these bankers. So, these guys, these bankers on Wall Street, they bankrupted the American economy, They almost caused the global economy to collapse and they got bailed out by the US government and they gave themselves huge bonuses at the end of the year.

Meanwhile, millions of average American homeowners lost their homes. People don’t remember this. They remember Obama as the first African American president, but during his tenure, We saw the greatest destruction of wealth among African Americans. They worked decades, centuries to build up all this wealth. In a matter of years, a lot of them lost it all. And this was during the first African American president who also won the Nobel Peace Prize for being the first African American. President. So there was a lot of anger.

Raj Shamani (00:06:30 – 00:06:31): There—

Professor Jiang Xueqin (00:06:31 – 00:07:13): it was a sense of betrayal. In 2016, Donald Trump said that he would clean house, that he would clean the swamp, he would build a wall, and he would stop the Chinese, uh, from taking advantage of the Americans. And it was a message that resonated with a lot of people. It didn’t resonate with me because I thought this guy was a clown. It probably didn’t resonate with you, but it resonated with a lot of people. And I remember in 2016, I didn’t pay much attention because I was told that it was mathematically impossible for Donald Trump to win.

Raj Shamani (00:07:13 – 00:07:13): Why?

Professor Jiang Xueqin (00:07:14 – 00:07:38): Because Democrats had 3 states, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, and Michigan. And they were pro-worker. Obama won them by landslide in 2008 and 2012. And as long as they stayed loyal to the Democrats, Trump had no chance. So I didn’t pay much attention. And Trump on election night won all 3.

Raj Shamani (00:07:39 – 00:07:39): Yeah.

Professor Jiang Xueqin (00:07:40 – 00:08:12): And, um, No one bothered to ask them, like, why did you vote for Trump? And all that happened was the elite said, well, they voted for Trump because they were racist. And no one bothered to point out that, no, no, no, no, these people in Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, and Michigan voted for Obama twice, and then they voted for Donald Trump. Why did that happen? And it happened because the people felt betrayed by the elite.

Raj Shamani (00:08:13 – 00:08:48): And, um, but don’t you think then actually voting Donald Trump just is like voting another elite? Because he was— he, he’s literally a billionaire running for the office. And a normal average middle-class person hates all these elites, hate all of these people who are these crony capitalists, who are the people with big money, billionaires, because they all got saved at and they got big fat bonuses, right? So that was the anger. Why would they then choose another guy who’s exactly like them in a different suit?

Professor Jiang Xueqin (00:08:48 – 00:12:07): Right. So it’s interesting because we look at Donald Trump today and we think that he’s just one of the elite. He’s no different. And his policies are really no different from that of another Republican, right? Why did he start this war in Iran? Why is he so supportive of Israel? He seems like another elite.

But in 2016, he was revolutionary because he talked not like you and me, but like the average American. He used simple words to describe deep emotions that captured the imagination of the American people.